<html> <body> Robert, Go to the PTG website shop and get the book "On Pitch".  I had this same problem, problem was I was trying to listen to something way up in the stratosphere.  This will help you to identify where to listen for the beats (coincident partial of the interval) etc.  I also found that using ear-plugs, Diane Hofstetter's canal caps are great, really helped to reduce that stratospheric stuff so I could focus on the useful sounds. Andrew Anderson At 08:54 AM 2/4/2006, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I am learning to tune aurally, although I use an ETD (Sanderson Accutuner III)  to check the accuracy of my tuning and to speed things up a bit. I find it difficult to hear the beats (particlularly the slow beating 4ths and 5ths) even in the quiet environment of my own home on my well scaled Yamaha grand piano, because they seem to be so weak. Will your ears eventually become more accustomed to hearing beats? I have been doing this for months and the beats still sound very feeble, although when I move my head around the piano they become slightly more perceptible. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to tune a piano in the noisy environments that you describe.   Robert Finley <dl> <dd>----- Original Message ----- <dd>From: <a href="mailto:thetuner@ivories52.com">Geoff Sykes</a> <dd>To: <a href="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net">tune4u@earthlink.net</a> ; <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech List'</a> <dd>Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 12:51 AM <dd>Subject: RE: tuning environment <dd>I had the opportunity to tune four pianos at NAMM last year. Ever try to tune in a very large convention center full of pianos all being tuned at the same time? Complete chaos and cacophony would have been quieter. Especially when you find yourself working on the same note at the same time as one or two other techs in the same room. And you know what? It was a fascinating high energy learning experience and I'd gladly do it again. <dd>  <dd>-- Geoff Sykes <dd>-- Assoc. Los Angeles <dd>  <dl> <dd>-----Original Message----- <dd>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Alan Barnard <dd>Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 6:47 PM <dd>To: Pianotech List <dd>Subject: RE: tuning environment <dd>Stick around awhile and you'll experience some tuning environments that'll make noisy nursing homes seem like a nap on the beach. <dd>  <dd>Lawn mowers, vacuums, screeching 2-year-olds, clocks!!!, loud air conditioners and furnaces, televisions, and (at Fort Leonard Wood) the not-so-distant sound of small arms, tank shells, and the engineers blowing up stuff ... kabooM! ... the fun just keeps on coming. <dd>  <dd>One that was a challenge: Junior high school tuning Hamilton on stage in gym/auditorium with concrete floor and cinder block walls, boys basketball team shows up and they each grab a ball and start bouncing, shooting, shouting, laughing and the SHOES ... sqeak squirk eek scree. I couldn't complain because I'd gotten held up and was an hour late when I started. <dd>  <dd>And the number one most obnoxious sound? Someone else tuning another piano in the background. <dd>  <dd>Alan Barnard <dd>Salem, Missouri <dd>  <dd>  <dl> <dd>----- Original Message ----- <dd>From:<a href="mailto:pianotune05@comcast.net"> </a> <dd>To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</a> <dd>Sent: 02/03/2006 6:37:02 PM <dd>Subject: tuning environment <dd>  <dd>Hi Everyone, <dd>I know it's not a technical question per sae, but I like hearing about other technician's experiences.  What has been yoru worst tuning environment?  Today I tuned a piano at a nursing home, an Acrosonic.  The people were great, but it always throws me off when someone comesup and asks me a question such as, "Have you found that lost chord yet." I was making sure my thirds matched up evenly.  It was great, and I scheduled them for their next tuning already plus one of the employees there scheduled me to tune her piano in two weeks.  It was a great experience, but it's hard to tune with lots of background activity.  What do you guys do in that situation, besides make the best of it.?:)  <dd>Marshall <dd>ps. It was a great tuning all around however, plus they offered me lunch!  Awesome chili and corn bread.  <dl> <dd>-------------- Original message -------------- <dd>From: Susan Kline <skline@peak.org> <dd>> At 03:57 PM 2/3/2006 -0800, Horace wrote: <dd>> >Actually that has been done a number of times. When I was more active in <dd>> >institutional work, I used to do it for demonstration purposes...it does <dd>> >get folks' attention. <dd>> <dd>> I'm sure it does! <dd>> <dd>> >Also, I know specifically of one major contemporary venue in which this <dd>> >was done to the primary concert instrument...no, the technician who did it <dd>> >is no longer employed there. <dd>> <dd>> Ready for a different sort of institution, I would guess ... well, there is <dd>> more than one way to tell an employer to "take this job and shove it." <dd>> <dd>> sssssssssnn <dd>> <dd>> <dd>> _______________________________________________ <dd>>! ;! ; Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl></blockquote></body> </html>