<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; = charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10"> <meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 10"> <link rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01C4E99E.4AE5DF60"> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue = style='tab-interval:.5in'> <div class=Section1> On the surface that seems a bit harsh.  Having a = finder’s fee which is split between buyer and seller would not be an unusual = arrangement and would defer costs slightly from each party.  As long as there wasn’t a = conflict of interest driving the sale.  I obviously don’t know the specifics surrounding the deal but I certainly see = guild members doing things that seem less ethical—maybe just more = incompetent—than that and are members in good standing.  It appears that the tech simply asked for a fee after the = fact.  No harm in asking.  If the dealer wanted to give a = “spiff” (never heard that word before), then that’s up to the dealer, it = seems to me.  I wouldn’t do it = that way myself, but barring him from membership in the guild?  Maybe a discussion of what is = considered ethical conduct in the guild would have been more appropriate.    <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> More typically, a = “finders” fee is paid by the customer who wishes to employ your services and is = separate from a “commission” paid by the seller.  Finder’s fees or = commissions can either be a flat fee or a percentage of the sale.  Commissions from the seller = vary from dealer to dealer and party to party and, like all such fees, are best negotiated in advance.  = This is separate yet from a fee for inspection in which you are hired to go = inspect a piano and might amount to a fee similar to a service call.  Commissions for independent = techs (different from a commission if you are a dealer taking in a piano on consignment) typically range between 3% and 15% probably averaging = around 10%.    <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> David Love <st1:PersonName>davidlovepianos@comcast.net</f= ont></st1:PersonName> = <o:p></o:p> </div> -----Original = Message----- From: = pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul McCloud Sent: Friday, December = 24, 2004 7:46 AM To: = <st1:PersonName>Pianotech</st= 1:PersonName> Subject: Re: Piano Finder = Fee <o:p> </o:p> <div> A few years ago, = I had invited a technician to join the local Guild chapter.  The = following incident caused him to be barred from entrance into the = Guild.  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The tech was hired to look at a S&S grand at our store.  We don't sell new Steinways, but had several used ones for sale.  The customer didn't = like any of them, so they went to the Steinway dealer to look at new = ones.  He was asked to evaluate one of the pianos there.  Without removing = the action, he looked it over and declared it suitable for his = customer.  The customer paid him for his services.  Later, he approached the = salesperson and asked if there might be some spiff for bringing in his = customer.  His reasoning was that our store (not Steinway franchise dealer) was going = to give him one, so would they offer him one as well?  It wasn't arm = twisting, but he did get a spiff from the dealer.  Another tech (Guild member) = was present for the sale at the dealer.  When he found that this tech = had received pay from both dealer and customer, he used his influence to = have this tech barred from membership.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Paul = McCloud<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> San = Diego<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> ----- Original Message = ----- <o:p></o:p> </div> <div style='font-color:black'> From:</span= > <a href="mailto:sarah@graphic-fusion.com" = title="sarah@graphic-fusion.com">Sarah Fox</a> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> To: = <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" = title="pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</a><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Sent:</span= > 12/24/2004 7:29:21 AM <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Subject:</s= pan> Re: Piano Finder Fee<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> Hi = Terry,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> My Wissner was located = through a third party who supposedly wanted a 10% finder's fee.  It = turns out that the "real" fee he was trying to swing for himself (by = lying to both buyer and seller) was much, much higher -- something like 50% = over the seller's price.  (In the end, the deal didn't happen the way he = had hoped.)  Anyway, 10% was considered fair in NYC for a deal in which = the finder didn't really have to do any more than to put two parties in contact.  If you are doing other things for the buyer (e.g. = evaluating the pianos), then I would think you should ask more.  Perhaps you could = charge a fee per piano that you evaluate, plus 10% of the = sale?<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Peace,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Sarah<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'= > <div> ----- Original Message = ----- <o:p></o:p> </div> <div style='font-color:black'> From:</span= > <a href="mailto:terry@farrellpiano.com" = title="terry@farrellpiano.com">Terry</a> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> To:<= /font> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" = title="pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Sent:</span= > Friday, December 24, 2004 8:15 AM<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Subject:</s= pan> Piano Finder Fee<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> I have been asked by a = client of mine to find a good used piano for their daughter. I am always happy to = work with folks to get rid of the junk and get a nice piano. The guy is = willing to spend up to the $3K to $4K range (maybe a nice used Yamy = upright). He appears to be the type of guy that simply doesn't have the time to = do it himself, but wants it to happen. He said "find me a nice piano and = I'll take care of you".<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> We didn't talk about any = specifics.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> So it seems apparent to me = that he is willing to pay a finder's fee if I find him a nice piano. I = am aware that some dealers will sell a piano for a private owner = on consignment. I don't know what percentage is typical. I sold two bicycles at two = different stores for a 25% consignment fee. I have a third at another store that = will charge a 15% consignment fee. What kind of consignment fees do stores = charge for a piano sold on consignment. Is that any basis for a finder's = fee?<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Has anyone done this sort = of thing for a third party? How did it work. What were the financial = arrangements?<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Thanks.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Terry = Farrell<o:p></o:p> </div> </blockquote> </blockquote> </div> </body> </html>