<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type = content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Hi Robin,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>I too agree completely = with what you and John are saying about many older pianos. Somethimes I have the = opportunity to hear great pianists playing on good older instruments (of course they = know how to play on those pianos) and it makes me feel happy = and understand  the music more than if played on modern instruments.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Often I find = old pianos to have a longer sustain and singing tone than recent ones.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Pierre</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=hufford1@airmail.net = href="mailto:hufford1@airmail.net">Robin Hufford</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 24, 2005 = 7:43 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: soundboards</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Hello John, <BR>     I agree with = you completely.  Many older pianos, as I have indicated here before, = have, at least to my ear and that of many others, a more musical, expressive sound.  Nor do they particularly lack sustain, although this = certainly can occur.  Where they do there are, in the large majority of = cases, conditions that can be corrected with some work.  As to sound, = there is little doubt of this amongst musicians, in general and, especially, = among piano players, who have to make the instrument do what it is designed = for, that is, produce music.  <BR>     On this subject = there is, however, substantial skepticism, among technicians, especially = here, who don't play, or, only play in a very limited way.  These = individuals obviously don't judge sound by the methods, whatever they are, of = musicians, nor do they reach similar conclusions.  So, I would stick with = what, actually, sounds good.  Nor, are their analyses, whatever they = say, particularly scientifically-based, whatever the illusion given.    The so-called analyses presented here are, in = my mind, elaborate rationalizations for the joys of woodworking and, = although superficially scientific sounding, are gross oversimplifications for soundboard functions.   Vague pronouncements about stiffness = here and there, diffuse claims regarding impedance, sneering asides as to = the much derided "circle of sound", confident assertions of "compression = failure" etc. are only partially correct, if at all and should be taken with a grain = of salt.  So, I would stick with what sounds best and not, allow = myself, as some appear to have done,  to be sold a bill of goods. = <BR>Regards Robin Hufford, RPT<BR>    <BR><BR>Bec and John wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid96DD2962-6B32-11D9-AB15-000393B899AE@comcast.net = type="cite">Hi Dale, <BR><BR>We are coming at this from 2 different perspectives! The method of crowning used for the soundboard is not = an issue I'm considering, I'm just relaying my ear's perspective based on my experience. <BR><BR>My 80 year Steinway L has 2 very thin cracks, = has crown and a warmth of sound I haven't heard in new L's, and I live in the northeast which has large humidity swings - I don't even notice any significant lack of sustain in any particular section. But even if = my piano had cracks galore, say like one of my friends' old Mason and Hamlin = A (which incidentally sounds quite nice), what difference does that make if = it has a more pleasing sound than a new one with no cracks? <BR><BR>-- John <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=-1> </FONT>  HI = John <BR>  I think you've hit a VERY SIGNIFICANT = cause of our objections to new the new piano shaped objects being sold at = Costco or wherever. <BR>  .Yeah The Hammers. Yes, & voicing,  or a hammer transplant can seriously improve things And yet if the soundboard design & execution is = lacking then the musical tone index goes down & the noise & aural = pain index goes up. <BR>  My experience ,with most = old Os & Ls from the 20's. is The rib support in these pianos is so = lacking that 9 out of 10 boards I see in these pianos are flat as pancakes = and or have as many cracks as a venetian blind. <BR> Now remember I'm in Calif. where pianos longevity is greatly enhanced = by our climate. Providing that the pianos lived here most of there lives = they've suffered less.. So what does that tell you about the conditions of = others that have groaned thru harsh winters & summers? <BR>   My Advice to all is stop being so optimistic about the condition of old compression crowned boards. = It's a method full of pitfalls which is a self destructing method in = which all crown has collapsed by now  in pianos built 85 plus years ago = <BR>  Regards <BR>  Dale</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>