<html> Paul, Joe- Joe, it sounds to me as though Paul is describing something different. Paul, I guess we could find out your special reason directly from you, or by getting in touch with one of two Davids.  I'm not clear on the engineering, however, for starts the implication here is that the benefit of the smaller pin resides in its smaller string coils rather than the total surface area in contact with the block.  I'm not clear as to why you would want additional stiffness in that area of the pin unless you think the pins are being pulled forward due to insufficient surface area (part of pin in the block itself) or due to excessive flexing.   If you are talking about repinning with these, two problems come to mind: 1) Given the current discussion of pins already in contact with the plate, it seems to me you would have a bit of a problem installing them, unless you were to drive them in from the bottom of the block.  That would certainly be something to write about. 2) As a few on this topic have mentioned, and with whom I agree,  a small degree of flex is a useful fine tuning tool.  It would seem that, by stiffening the pin up to the coils, and then reducing the size at the top, you would be directing the flex force to one, already weakened area of the pin (string hole).  Share your thought, and how much did you pay for them (the pins, that is)? David Skolnik At 09:23 AM 05/14/2001 -0700, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Paul, Many years ago, Piano Manufacturers actually used a tuning pin like you describe. It is called a tapered tuning pin. They had many advantages. One of which is, slight tapping of one that is considered loose, fixed the problem. These pins were approx. #1 pin size at the bottom and approx. 3/0 at the top. (that is not a typo: #1 tuning pin dia.=.265"). Hope this clarifies for you. Regards, Joe Garrett, R.P.T. <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>----- Original Message ----- From: <a href="mailto:larudee@pacbell.net">larudee@pacbell.net</a> To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Ditch the tuning pin bushings Del & David, What about a tuning pin that is oversize from just under the coils down and size 1/0 or 2/0 from there up?  That would give added stiffness to the pin in the portion that passes through the webbing without sacrificing the better torque and smaller string coils that you get with standard size pins.  It also allows reuse of the old pin block (if it is in good condition) while still retaining the benefits of standard size pins.  (David Love and David Ilvedson know that I have a special reason for asking this question.) Paul Larudee     David Skolnik wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite> At 11:22 PM 05/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:   <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Another thought though; someone mentioned to me the problem of restringing with oversize pins -- something I'd not really thought about since we don't do this. Del</blockquote> Del- Could you make clear what size pin qualifies as "oversized", assuming that 2/0 was the original?  Thanks. David Skolnik      </blockquote></blockquote></blockquote> </html>