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<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Sarah,
list,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Hello</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>First
thanks much for all of you that send me gentle posts they enlighten my =
Christmas
day ! I indeed did not take too seriously the "reaction" of Mr. C.T. I =
know the
feeling to be made frustrated or nervous with the reading of some posts, =
all of
these is really of little importance in the end.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003></SPAN><SPAN =
class=624130518-26122003><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>I
conscientiously have read the beginning of that thread (that I did not =
really
follow from the start) .</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>I like
the way you describe the "impedance match" between the pianists hand/arm =
and the
action . Particularly the "running in the sand" </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There are likewise actions that are too =
massive for
me to play comfortably. If I were a huge person, on the other =
hand, I
imagine I would be able to play those actions with ease -- and my =
friend's
spinet would seem like even more absurd a tinker toy.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN =
class=624130518-26122003><FONT
color=#0000ff> > </FONT></SPAN>Mind you, I don't really =
know how
the mechanical impedance of an arm would be characterized and how it =
would
best be matched to the impedance of the action, as referenced to the =
front of
the key. Perhaps our engineer friends could help us with that
one. In the end, I would think it important to have some degree =
of
impedance mismatch, to aid with the hand's rebound from the key. =
If the
action's impedance is higher than the arm's (which I would think would =
be an
INCREDIBLY heavy action such as we've not built), then the hand would =
spring
off of the tops of the keys. <SPAN =
class=624130518-26122003><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003> Have that kind of feel with some =
Kawai action
(series KG) when loaded with massive Renner hammers like it was done =
in France
on all of them in the 70's (because the original hammers where really =
too
mushy I guess) Static DW then is as high as 120 g in the low bass, and =
around
80 DW in the medium.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003>There was a period where pianists believe =
that heavy
actions was better for them - from a muscular point of view. Hopefully =
we came
back to more acceptable standards after some time and a few tendinis I =
suppose.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003>> </SPAN> If the impedance is the =
same, then
there would be little or no "spring," and there would be a sensation =
similar
to running in the sand -- maximum energy transfer per note, but too =
much
"bogging" on each note to have energy to put into the next =
note. <SPAN
class=624130518-26122003><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=Arial><FONT
size=2><SPAN =
class=624130518-26122003></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN =
class=624130518-26122003>I've find
that kind of sensation on some "accelerated actions" and also on =
action with
leading nearer the balance rail - while the sensation is may be also =
due to
other parameters regarding the return of the action, kind of lack of =
rebound
there.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003>> </SPAN> If the impedance is =
lower, then the
key would bottom, and the fingers/hand/arm would be able to "hop" off =
of the
front rail. If the impedance is too much lower, then there would =
be
"nothing there" -- as with the spinet -- and playing the piano would =
almost be
the effortless experience of "playing" one's dining room =
table -- or
a toy electronic keyboard. I suspect this all comes down to =
trial and
error -- personal taste. Perhaps some table of values could show =
average
preferences, but I'm sure much would depend on the
individual.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>That =
is where
having enough friction during letoff allows to gain a little =
controllable
resistance in the action, seem to me that the pianists use a basic
"sustentation" of their arm that serve to adapt to the general =
impedance of
the instrument, and that the part remaining for nuances is in the =
fingers and
wrist abilities to find a compliance with the letoff moment and the =
very last
moments before (namely action compression)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>I =
wanted also to
restate why I talk often of the way the action is under compression, =
while it
is fairly possible I am very wrong on the subject.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial =
size=2>Nobody seem to
answer on these, may be because this sound too much esoteric comments =
(they
are certainly not facts that could be ascertain with
certitude)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>If I =
see a piano
action acting with springiness (from the shank and from the key) it is =
mostly
because of friends that have seen the videos of the key touching the =
front
punching before the hammer actually hit the string (under certainly =
only heavy
playing) , but also because there is an important change in tone =
depending of
the aftertouch (grand piano) Then I theorize about synchronization of =
the
bottoming of the key and the contact moment at the =
hammer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial =
size=2>Experiment that
could show from what velocity the friction on the roller induce =
flexion of the
key (what kind of torque is applied at the jacks/roller contact point =
and how
is delayed between shank flex and key flex) should certainly help me =
to clear
up those matters.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>The =
hammer is
accelerated a lot during the stroke so it is certainly generating a =
lot of
torque on the rest of the system.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>I =
suppose also
that a truly rigid action would be difficult to deal =
with.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>I =
understand that
these are certainly not subjects even easy to approach with some =
numbers, but
, assuming the letoff occur at 2 mm from the string, to produce =
that move
let's say that a 2/5 = 0.2 mm move at the front of the key is =
necessary, seem
to me not very unrealistic that the key is able to flex that little if =
a
sufficient torque exist at the capstan (shank flex not even in the
picture).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>I =
understand that
as "action saturation" my take is that there is always some , =
particularly if
the pianist play too hard. Some of you may certainly have some good =
way of
expressing those ideas, and correct me if I am wrong. =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>That =
is also why I
lend to the side of James Ellis for the key lack of stiffness induced =
by too
much holes in them, notice that Steinway keyboards have a longer =
capsule than
usual, if we have to reinforce the key because of the leading method =
employed
that seem a too heavy task for what is expected.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial =
size=2>Again thanks to
all who write me their good Christmas wishes - I am 48 today
BTW.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's =
been a
wonderful year on PianoTech, take care of you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial =
size=2>Peace (TM -
copyright Sarah)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003></SPAN><SPAN
class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Isaac</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=624130518-26122003><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>