<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>"But let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange. =  That's 100%.  Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch. =  The high treble may easily be 150% flat.  Now add 30 cents for the high = treble for the usual amount of stretch.  We're up to 180% now, which = theoretically would take +60 cents overpull."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is all this percent stuff? Do you mean cents?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to see = substantiated:  a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on".  I'm = not from Missouri but *show me* anyway."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess it depends on what you mean by "dead on". The original = statement was "With the Sanderson Accu tweaker(as Jim Harvey calls it), and a good = ear, I can pitch raise a piano 100 cents low, in two passes and get it dead on = A440." I think this pretty clearly is making the claim that A4 ends up at 440 = hertz. I would imagine that the claim is also being made that the rest of the = notes are close enough for a final tuning pass. That being the case, I do = that routinely. I don't like to raise a string more than 25 cents above its = targeted frequency (I like to keep it a lot less than that actually). For a 100 = cent flat piano, I would do a first pass overpulling the bass by about 5 cents, = the tenor about 10 cents, and the treble about 15 cents (if the piano is old and = crusty I would first pull the treble to target pitch, and then go over it a = second time targeting pitch again). On my second pitch raising pass I would use = the SAT-calculated overpulls (a little less in bass) and pretty easily end = up within a cent or two of targeted pitch. Prior to the second pitch-raising pass = I would typically find the piano 10-15 cents flat in the bass, the tenor about = 20 cents flat, and the treble perhaps 30 cents flat. After the second = pass, I would most often be ready for a tuning pass. Sometimes the = magic does not work quite so well, and I will either have to do a third pass to get = it close enough for the tuning pass, or perhaps just adjust a couple = octaves before the tuning pass. The top couple octaves is what usually suffers the most = (but do people with 100-cent flat pianos play up there???). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But most often, two pitch raising passes and then a tuning pass for = the 100-cent flat piano. This certainly won't be a concert-level tuning, but = part of my thinking here is that no matter what you do to the poor neglected = piano, it will not be a very stable tuning when you are done, so trying for tuning = perfection may not be of great benefit here. Rather than trying to get = the perfect tuning, I tend to spend a bit of time during the pitch = raise (especially on the second pitch-raise pass) trying to make sure the = back scale string segments get stretched out and the string is not = dropping in pitch under firm blows. I guess that is my philosophy on such a = piano - get it up to pitch, get it as pitch-stable as is possible, put a tolerable = tuning on the piano. I'll commonly spend about 105 minutes doing the two pitch = raise passes and one tuning pass. Maybe a bit more if the Goddesses are not = smiling on me that day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I have noticed when doing the BIG pitch raise is that = after getting the upper treble up to pitch, often you can observe the = instability. I'll give a note a few firm blows to make sure it is not dropping in = pitch, and then put it where I want it. Hit the key hard, the pitch drops. Hit the = key medium light, the pitch goes sharp. Hit it hard and it goes flat again, = play it medium and it goes sharp. You can vary the pitch easily by two to five = cents up and down, up and down, just by how hard you play the note. When I see = that kind of stuff after the big pitch raise I feel pretty confident that = no-way are you going to get a real stable tuning on that piano on that day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And that's all I got to say 'bout that.<BR></DIV> <DIV>Terry Farrell</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=Billbrpt@AOL.COM = href="mailto:Billbrpt@AOL.COM">Billbrpt@AOL.COM</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 05, 2001 = 7:35 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Oops?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a = message dated 11/5/01 6:16:31 PM Central Standard Time, <A = href="mailto:davidlovepianos@earthlink.net">davidlovepianos@earthlink.n= et</A> (David Love) writes: <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE">Also, so that those who are not familiar with your style = of tuning are not mislead, the standard pitch raise function should get = the treble sharp enough if you measure/reset frequently on the way up = and if you are using standard stretching.  I recall that you mentioned = that in your tempered octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you get = to C8.  Those tuning with normal stretch are more likely to reach only = +40.  For your system that would require additional stretch going = up.  For others, they would end up considerably sharp of the target = and have to do a lowering before a fine = tuning.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 = FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Yes, but bear in mind that most of the time I use a more conventional amount of = stretch.  The triple octave/double octave and fifth comparison is only for = when I wan the absolute maximum and justifiable amount.   <BR><BR>Once I = get into the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off.  But = let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange.  That's 100%. =  Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch.  The high treble = may easily be 150% flat.  Now add 30 cents for the high treble for = the usual amount of stretch.  We're up to 180% now, which theoretically = would take +60 cents overpull.  Yipes! <BR><BR>Maybe on a new or newly = strung piano but even then, I'd prefer to work my way up.  The danger of = breaking a string or splitting the bridge on the poor old Betsy Ross is simply = too great.  Add to that the kind of test blows needed to settle such a = change and you'd be bustin' those elbows or breaking the keys themselves at the = balance rail. <BR><BR>It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to = see substantiated:  a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out = "dead on".  I'm not from Missouri but *show me* anyway. <BR><BR></FONT><FONT = lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Bill = Bremmer RPT <BR>Madison, Wisconsin</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>