<html> <body> Phil, I've posted this on the list before, but maybe there are some who've not seen it, so I'll post it one more time. Maybe there'll be something useful here. Avery At 10:50 AM 7/26/04, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">..just got a call from a client..sounds like a broken agraffe. Any suggestions for this fix other than what Arthur Reblitz suggests(sounds easy enough)?</blockquote> See below, from the archives. Maybe some of these ideas will help. Avery At 05:37 PM 02/04/03 -0500, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Hi all, I've never replaced an agraffe, but I've done a lot of metal work and have removed many a broken screw.  Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why doesn't anyone use the screw extracting tools that are made precisely for this job.  (Are agraffes backwards-threaded or something?)  Just drill a small hole, push the tip of the extractor in the hole, and turn.  Presto!  The bigger and softer the screw, the easier it is.  Screw extractor sets are available from any Home Depot or Lowe's for a very reasonable price. Now removing a jammed and broken tap....  That takes a bit more skill and a more expensive tool. Peace, Sarah <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">----- Original Message ----- From: <<a href="mailto:rinkyd@pacbell.net%3EPhil" eudora="autourl">mailto:r= inkyd@pacbell.net>Phil</a> Frankenberg To: <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"= eudora="autourl">mailto:pianotech@ptg.org</a>>pianotech Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:44 AM Subject: broken agraffe I am struggling with a frozen agraff on a Steinway D. Has anyone tried heating the stud ,say with a soldering iron? Any suggestions would be appreciated. When it broke it left a peak across the center making it extremely difficult to drill down the center for an ez out. I managed a slightly off center hole but it's not budging. Thanks. Phil Frankenberg Csuc Chico Ca.</blockquote></blockquote> There was an extensive discussion of this some while back and will be in the archives. Do use Liquid Wrench. Use it BEFORE working on the agraffe. I like to drill two holes, opposite each other at the edge of the stub, 1/16" or smaller. The drill will follow the path of least resistance and cut the brass, not the iron. Cut a screw driver of the appropriate size into a Vee shape so the points go into the holes and give a sharp quick twist of the driver will loosen and turn out the stub. If you have enough room you may be able to still do this. If it is really jammed in there you need to call out the pros. Alternatively you can call in a machinist. Alternatively you can call in a chemist, who can provide an acid that will dissolve the brass then a base to neutralize the acid. I hope you have better luck. Newton ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= I had the unenviable experience of losing an easy-out tip in an agraffe shank. After a sprained wrist, a titanium (?) drill bit and a few hours of swearing and sweating, I finally managed to *carefully* drill around the busted easy-out part, extract it, then proceeded to use progressively larger bits to more or less drill out the agraffe remnant. At some point, the remnant decided to cooperate and it drove its way out the bottom of the plate. Wish I'd realized that you can (sometimes) go *either* way with a busted agraffe remnant *long* before all of that easy-out business messed things up! Ron Torrella ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= The best advice I have ever received on extracting broken agraffe studs is to use a tool that you can make yourself. Get a small screwdriver with a blade that is 3/16 wide. File the end like the illus. below:  _____________ ( / )___________\_ You make this with a file edge placed at a slight angle across the face of the blade. Position the angle so that there will be a cutting edge to dig into the bottom of the stud from below the pinblock. If the screw- driver is short enough, you can tap the points into the bottom of the stud. Turn the driver clockwise looking upward into the plate hole and stud. If you had not broken the easy-outs in the top, you could have used this tool in the counter clockwise direction looking from above. If you ever have a case like this again, use this tool from above. In most cases, it comes out quite easily. Another approach to this problem is to use a left-handed drill bit from the top. Use a slow speed drill, or tap holder. When the drill catches in the brass, the stud will usually come right out. If or when all else fails, you can do like I did on my first job. Drill out the whole thing. Steinway has available a repair agraffe for which you must tap a larger hole. At least I think that's where I got mine back in '52. You can see I've done it all three ways. Guess which one I like the best. Jim Coleman, Sr. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<b= r> Warning: if you try to drill more with a hard drill bit, there is a good chance the bit will catch on the broken easy-out and will also break off in the agraffe. This will leave you with a small amount of brass and lots of very hard steel in there. Ask me how I know!!! One big problem with easy-outs is that they can actually tighten the brass more in the hole. This is why they can break off in the hole like yours did. Try the sharpened screwdriver idea first. Give it a few minutes and try to get a really good bite in the brass, then see if it won't spin out. If this fails, get a right angle drill and some good sharp drill bits. They don't have to be especially fancy, just sharp. Using a mirror on the keybed, carefully centerpunch the bottom of the agraffe. A short center punch and a hammer held sideways will allow this. Slowly and carefully, paying special attention to the vertical alignment of the drill bit, drill up from the bottom until you hit the bottom of the easy-out. Keep your pressure light and you will feel the drill bit hit the hard steel. Once you have drilled through to the easy-out stub, take the drill away and insert a small drift punch into the hole from the bottom, tap up on the easy out, and it should come loose easily. Get it out of there, drill the hole clean all the way through from the top, then get back to removing the agraffe. From here it depends on how much brass is left in the hole. If the remaining brass is thin you can just tease the remaining material away with a jeweler's screwdriver. If there is much left you should try again to spin the agraffe out with the screwdriver, or something similar. Since you will have a hole in the middle, a small Phillips screwdriver may also be able to grab in the hole. Be sure you have the tap to clean up the threads before installing the new agraffe. Steinway ca  tell you the correct diameter and TPI. Best of luck. Don Mannino RPT ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Re: removing broken agraffes, The modified screwdriver is nice but if you have a reversible drill handy, another great way is to use a left hand drill bit available from good machine shops. When used in a reversible drill, the agraffe stub usually ends up turning out before you've drilled very far into the stub. This is due, in part, to the heat that is developed in the drilling process breaking down any corrosion. This is a "must have" tool for anyone working on "potential agraffe breakers"!! Good Luck!! Brian De Tar, RPT "NO OBSTACLES...ONLY OPPORTUNITIES!!" BDeTar@aol.com </body> </html>