<html> <body> Please note - In my previous post to this subject I neglected to credit the recent submissions by Bob Davis and Any Rudoff: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:14:27 -0500 (EST) From: BobDavis88@aol.com Subject: Andy, another PTG list? As it seems completely hopeless to get people to stick to piano technology on a piano technology list, or even to label OT posts, how hard would it be to create a separate, non-moderated list for non-technical posts? Then piano techs (and others) could chat (and argue) to their hearts' content. I subscribe to pianotech, ptg-l, and caut. That is transparent to me, as they all come into the same mailbox. If I were not interested in PTG matters, I would simply unsubscribe to ptg-l, and still get the other two. The same would be true of pianoNONtech - those who want a place to chat would have one, seamlessly. There would be NO justification for OT posts (or mail yelling about them) on pianotech, with another easy place to put them, and the choice to tune in or not. Thanks, Bob Davis </blockquote> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 15:36:49 -0700 (MST) From: Andy Rudoff <andy@rudoff.com> Subject: Re: Andy, another PTG list? Creating new lists is quite easy.  But, let's face it, there are already many hundreds of active lists for idle chit chat, political discussions, religious debates, and just about any other topic I can think of.  So I would say there is already no justification for OT posts.</blockquote> Andy - As I wrote to Jim Ellis recently, people want to go where everyone knows your name.  These lists represent a community.  The idea, I think, is to be able to have these conversations with people you know. <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>The trick is to get people to stop posting the off-topic noise.  As you can see from watching the way pianotech works, it isn't easy. Sometimes enough people gripe until the noise dies down a little, but eventually someone who gets much less mail than I do gets bored and kicks off another thread on pianotech that has nothing to do with pianos.  That's really a shame, but creating another list for them to use won't cause them to use it, in my opinion.</blockquote> I think it would be much easier for anyone to call "point of order" to move a discussion to the OT list if it was available. <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>As we discuss every year or so, the only way to create a version of pianotech which stays on topic is to create a moderated list. If we created pianotech-m, and allowed people to subscribe to either pianotech (for the raw signal-to-noise ratio) or pianotech-m (for the improved signal-to-noise ratio) then people could choose which way they wanted to read it.  They could even digress into off-topic drivel without bothering anyone but the poor moderator who decides when to let a message through to pianotech-m. The only problem with this solution is finding someone to be the moderator.  It would require someone who reads every pianotech post, and doesn't usually lag behind by more than half a day or so (if the moderator delay is too long, people start posting "is the list working?" noise).  The job would be thankless, and would require someone with a thick skin who could stay dispassionate and not get caught up in personal or political arguments. -andy</blockquote> I think you point out the reasons why moderating Pianotech is not workable. David Skolnik Hastings-On-Hudson </body> </html>