<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" = http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Paul and the rest of the = gang</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>First </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think I'm about where you are = trying to do HT by ear. I'm a newbi and learning</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There have been little aural = descriptions of HT on this list.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have therefor calculated all thirds, = sixth, fiths and fourths of the Young and Viallotti temprements.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This two temprements are very much the = same. The only differense is that one pure 5th is moved to the other side. Young = favours the sharp keys and Vallotti the flat keys. The bad 5ths and 4ths are = twice as bad as ET. The double speed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In Vallotti all 5ths and 4ths with a = black are pure. In the Young F-C have been made pure and F#-B bad.</FONT><FONT = face=Arial size=2> You maybe know this though.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm tuning the Young this way = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>D4 to A3 2 bps. E4 to A3 1.5 = bps</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then I tune A#3 to D4 as a normal ET = third </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then I tune pure fiths/ fourths A#3 - = F3 -C3 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now I can put G3 between C4 and D4. = G3-C4 4beats the same time as G3-D4 beats 3 beats</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Check if they are as bad as A3-E4 and A3-D4</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you are not happy, = retune</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then tune A#3 - D#4 -G#3 -C#4 - F#3 = pure 5ths and 4ths </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then put B3 between F#3 and E4 as = contigues 4ths. B3-E4 4beats the same time as F#3-B3 3beats</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If I'm lucky this last bad 4ths = fits with A3-E4 and A3-D4 and G3-D4 and G3-C4</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All bad 5ths and 4ths should have this = relation (as in Vallotti, ET or Meantone)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>when the mutual note is the lower = the 4th will beat 4 times when the 5th beat 3 times</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the same as contigues 4ths</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When the mutual note is the = upper</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the 5th will beat 2 times when the 4th = beat 3 times as contigues 5ths</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To check a pure 5th or = 4th use the minor third (of the minor chord) below</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>like the A#3-F4 5th. C#3-A#3 same speed = as C#3-F4 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>or the A#3-D#4 4th. F#3-A#3 same speed = as F#3-D#3</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Vallotti will be very much the same</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>D4 to A3 2 bps. E4 to A3 1.5 = bps</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>then I tune C#4 to A3 as a normal = ET third </FONT></DIV> <DIV>Then I tune C#4 - F#3 - B3 as pure 5ths and 4ths</DIV> <DIV>Check if B3-E4 fits with E4-A3 and A3-D3</DIV> <DIV>If you are happy with it</DIV> <DIV>Tune the rest of the 5ths and 4ths with 1 or 2 blacks pure. C# - = G#3 - ........-F3</DIV> <DIV>Tune F and C and G as bad 5ths and 4ths</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can mail you the beats for both temprements if you want = them</DIV> <DIV>You can use a metronome instead of a tuner. </DIV> <DIV>I have also calculated the beats per minute for metronome. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There may be a better way to tune this auraly but this is the best = way I figured out</DIV> <DIV>I'm not ready to do this for a costumer yet.</DIV> <DIV>It would be fun to share our experience private</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everybody experienced PLEASE come with comments espesilly if I'm on = the wrong track.</DIV> <DIV>I don't have the Owens book</DIV> <DIV>I hope I got everything right and I hope you undestand my = English.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ola Andersson</DIV> <DIV>Bergen, Norway</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:tunenbww@clear.lakes.com" title=tunenbww@clear.lakes.com>Paul</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title=pianotech@ptg.org>pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 05, 2001 = 3:36 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> alternative = temperaments</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim Coleman Sr., and = List</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I tried my hand at tuning the = temperament that Ed Foote included with his class materials at the St. Louis Seminar. = Great class, Ed. I'm an aural tuner, so setting this temperament was a bit of a = struggle. It did work out. All of the checks proofed correct. I had several = people try the piano. Their reactions is another story. I want to know what is = available for tuning instructions for some of these temperaments for an aural = tuner, specifically the Kirnberger, Young, Broadwood Best, and Jim Coleman's temperaments 11 through 16. Would a chromatic tuner which displays = cents deviation be of any help? I can't afford an ET right now, but I'm very = interested in these temperaments and have several people wanting to = try them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Anybody?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Paul = Chick</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>