<HTML>In a message dated 8/14/2002 10:07:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, davidlovepianos@earthlink.net writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Re: Voicing Date:8/14/2002 10:07:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time From:<A HREF="mailto:davidlovepianos@earthlink.net">davidlovepianos@earthlink.net</A> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet         Dave Love, David, David and More David's</BLOCKQUOTE>           To Dave Love Applause, standing ovation and thanks for the clarity. This post sums up and presents a cohesive and technically efficient  philosophy as it pertains to voicing and customer relations.         It seems to me that some in this discussion are taking a defensive posture in this "to voice or not to voice" topic rather than hearing very good technical and business policy elucidated by experienced techs. Namely The Davids and others.    As Dave Love said this (voicing) really is one of  the most difficult and artistic things we do and this takes time, & illicits some anxiety over how much trouble it will be to get results and will I be successful. I go through some of this on every set of hammers/piano whether it's my own stock for sale or a clients priceless Mason or whatever.      Effort and Success breed confidence which removes any undue anxiety. In my personal approach to tone building the hammers/pianos is where the rubber meets the road. The end result of all fabulous restoration efforts either has the capacity to make music, satisfy the client, yourself, give personal pleasure at succeeding   and getting paid  or it  DOESN"T.  When it does, it's gloriously fulfilling and rewarding when it's not it's personally disappointing even though you got paid.     Also remember that hammers/voicing can only go so far in any piano with limited soundboard potential and every board will respond differently even if you could take the most awesome hammers and magically install the same hammers on many different pianos. They'd sound radically different on some instruments and similar on others all due to a host of variable conditions from wood quality,downbearing,crown etc. Hence voicing is a solution to try to equalize hammer/felt densitys/resilience  to the impedance properties of as specific soundboard system.   It's complicated it's, frustrating, it's illuminating. Hey that's why we do it.        Best to all            >>>>>Dale Erwin>>>>   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I've sort of exhausted my thoughts on this subject but as I said earlier, prevoicing means before the hammers are installed, much less delivered.  I wouldn't need to "sell" voicing because it's already in the price. Generally the customer doesn't sit down to try the piano until I'm done. When the action goes in it needs regulation, alignment, hammer to string fitting, tuning and voicing.  I'm usually there for several hours.  If you want me to say explicitely that leaving the piano unvoiced is incorrect, well I won't say that, but I will say that leaving the piano unvoiced is incomplete.  What if when you put in the action the let-off was at 1/4" and the customer played the piano and liked it and said don't touch it?  Would you see that as an opportunity to leave it that way?  Or would you explain that the piano will perform better if you take the time to set it right.  I don't view basic voicing any differently.  The bean dip analogy is fun but you're looking at the wrong part of it.  To make bean dip, you've gotta have beans.  In voicing, you have to have a certain foundation for the hammer. Let me reiterate, that doesn't mean that I'm imposing bright or mellow, spicy or not spicy on the customer.  They can well decide that part of it but I will still voice for a certain consistency in the supporting structure of the hammer, balance and evenness.  If they say they like it as it is, they are almost always responding to the level of attack.  I will explain the process and the goal and reassure them that their tastes will be adhered to but that certain procedures need to be performed to ensure range, uniformity and balance of tone.  It's easy to let the customers enthusiasm for the improvement of a new hammer lull you into a false sense of completion.  I would personally try and avoid that.  Then again, an improperly voiced hammer is probably worse than an unvoiced hammer. Voicing is part of the preparation of a piano.  It is, in my opinion, the most difficult and artistic part of what we do.  There are guidelines for procedures but because each manufacturer's hammers are different and because each set of hammers varies a little bit, experience and a strong tonal concept have to guide you, a few pianistic skills don't hurt either.  My sense is that many techs are uncomfortable with voicing and look for ways to avoid doing it.  I think all of us would love to have a hammer that you could just put on out of the box and they would be right.  I don't think that is possible because of the differences between the structure of the hammer off the press and the structural needs of the hammer to produce all the elements of good tone.  Some manipulation is always required. Complicating the issue are the inherent inconsistencies within each sheet of felt.  Some hammers sound better than others out of the box but in my experience that period is usually short lived. My goal is always to please the customer.  Part of the problem is understanding just what the customer is communicating about their preferences.  So if after I've discussed with a customer the merits of creating resilience on sustain, tonal range, etc., and if after I've explained that the piano needs to be balanced from top to bottom, and if after I've explained that the piano needs to produce similar quality tone from note to note at all levels of playing, and if after I've explained that they can still have it bright or mellow as they wish, they still want me to leave it alone, I would leave it alone.  So far, that has never happened. David Love </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>