<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>Dale Erwin wrote:</DIV> <DIV>Could you share how it is you're measuring 1.5 degrees of bearing = on the bass and with what. If the rear string length was 8 inches( possible on = a D) 8 Times .026=.208 or (1.5 degrees) of distance bearing . Considering = this bass bridge has no cantilever  I don't mind seeing this at the top end = of the bridge but I'd like to see .05 degrres in the mono section........................</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Dale,  All measurements referred to so far were = from the strung piano.  Individual strings were removed and thread/gap = measurements were taken.  I was conservative in the bass and = subtracted for the twisted part of the string riding on the hump.  Note # 3 = showed 1.3 deg, note # 10 showed 1.7 deg, and note # 19 showed 1.3 deg.  = Inverse tangent of (gap/rear length).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Did you mean to write .5 deg in stead of .05 = ?   Just for giggles I checked one of = the previously measured tenor bridge strings in the middle of the overstrung section after the bass = strings were off.  (The following day)  It came up from .06 deg to .5 deg.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Greg Newell wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV>I re-read your original post below and I still come to the same = conclusion. It sounds as though you're somewhat accomplished in rebuilding so I'm = not sure I understand your hesitation in recapping. If the original pins are loose = and you don't intend to replace with oversize but you are going through the = trouble of pulling the plate and then subsequent re-stringing then .... why not? ..............................</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>If I could do something with epoxy in a few hours = and save all that expense. It will get new pins.  I am not an accomplished = rebuilder or expert woodworker.  I have done dozens of restringings and several = board shimming internal restorations with doweled in new blocks.  I = haven't done any in shop belly work for almost a year.  Am doing mostly actions now.  At one time I was hot to try bridge capping but I don't think = this is the right time for me.  The piano will go to another shop if that = is the decision.  It has been a lot of dues paid to get to where I am = right now.  It has kind of been a relief that the constant acquisition of = tools has slowed and I have been busy doing things I am good at.  I'm = reluctant to take on the big learning curve again.  It is tempting = though.  I am handy with chisels and planes and japanese saws and reach for them first = before power tools.  I used to cut down key # 88 with a bandsaw, now = I pare it with a chisel just for the pleasure of = it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Ron Nossaman wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV>But it's not being condemned, it's being restrung even though it = sounded ok <BR>before? Is the damaged cap the reason for the restringing? And if = so, why <BR>the reluctance to replace it? If not, why is it being = restrung?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>The piano is long overdue for restringing.  = It has never been restrung.  It is starting to shed treble strings.  = Capo needs to be reshaped.  No one noticed the cap.  It does not = sound good in the treble.  I thought I was catching a whiff of that old " If = it doesn't have X amount of crown it isn't worth working on".  That = was why I said I was not going to condemn the piano.  I was trying to find = out if any one had done the kind of bridge top resurfacing that I am imagining.   I have an obligation to try to repair = economically before replacement.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>>I'm anticipating tight new bridge pins are going to contribute = to tonal <BR>>improvement up higher.<BR><BR>Why, considering the condition of = the cap and resulting bearing measurements?<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>The pins come out easily.  I thought the = bearing was ok in that part of the piano.  (I'm not an expert,  = I'm soliciting an opinion from you rebuilder types) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Everybody,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>     One thing I have learned = already is to inspect every piano in the field if possible.  I = hate these kind of surprises.  Forgive my lack of protocol knowledge on this = kind of message board if I'm creating strange posts.  I guess we have to be = careful not to take each other out of context with all this cutting and pasting.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>       I attempted to = quantify the condition of the grooves now that the strings are off.  = Either it doesn't look as bad as I thought or I'm getting used to it.  Maybe = they are swelling up a bit.  Humidity is up.  I held a = straight edge on the edge of the bridge and slid a needle under until it stopped.  = It measured between .025" and .030" in tenor and low capo.  High capo = was .020" to .025".  Actually that is about as bad as I = imagined,  the strings were about 2/3 into the top.  I have no idea = what "normal" wear is because I have never thought about this = before.  Mitigating factor :  the wood at the edge that the ruler was = on is a little bit puffy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>     Is this too far to sand/plane down?  </FONT><FONT size=2> Could the duplexes be = ground down a bit if so?  </FONT> <FONT size=2>This might be my last gasp here.  Does anyone know of anyone who has attempted to resurface a top?  I guess this is mostly for my own interest since I would only = do it if it were a known procedure that worked.  Like epoxying pins is = now a known procedure.  I seem to remember it used to be controversial.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>     I just had another thought = that might not offend those who thought any buildup of epoxy in the groove would fail.  What about swelling the top a little,  then = planing,  then renotching,  then pins in w/ epoxy and saturating notches and top.  Any amount the grooves swelled up would then be = saturated and not built up.  (Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique = anyone?)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Cheers,  Steve Bellieu</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=Erwinspiano@aol.com href="mailto:Erwinspiano@aol.com">Erwinspiano@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 18, = 2002 6:04 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Bridgetop = Extravaganza Revisited</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 = face="Times New Roman" size=2 FAMILY="SERIF">In a message dated 12/18/2002 4:03:28 PM = Pacific Standard Time, <A href="mailto:sbellieu@mindspring.com">sbellieu@mindspring.com</A> writes:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE"></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Subj: <B>Re: Bridgetop = Extravaganza Revisited </B><BR>Date: 12/18/2002 4:03:28 PM Pacific Standard = Time<BR>From: <A = href="mailto:sbellieu@mindspring.com">sbellieu@mindspring.com</A><BR>Re= ply-to: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><BR>To: <A = href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><BR><I>Sent = from the Internet </I><BR><BR>     </FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 = size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Steve</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 = style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" = color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SERIF">        Could you = share how it is you're measuring 1.5 degrees of bearing on the bass and with = what. If the rear string length was 8 inches( possible on a D) 8 Times = .026=.208 or (1.5 degrees) of distance bearing . Considering this bass bridge has = no cantilever  I don't mind seeing this at the top end of the bridge = but I'd like to see .05 degrres in the mono section. That being said I've seen = D basses set up with more than that that sounded great and ones with = nominal bearing or none that sounded somewhat  weak. Where's the = beef?<BR>  What's really there has or will come to light with the strings off no doubt.<BR>       Dale Erwin</FONT><FONT = lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 = size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE"></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT = lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 = size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 = style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SERIF"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTM= L>