<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body> Issac.. I couldnt disagree more with you about the P 12ths tuning.  The 12th tunings curve results in a very condensed stretch which has the peculiar effect of sounding as tho it has a greater stretch then its actual stretch numbers would suggest.  Typically the highest C is no more then 28 cents stretched... which is about as slight a stretch as they come. I can hardly see that a more conservative stretch is really possible without creating narrow 2:1 octaves at some point. In the temperament range, this tuning has fourths and fifths that are nearly identical to the standard temperament. The distance between D3's third and A4's fundamental is typically narrowed by 0.3 to 0.5 bps for this range. Spread over the 17 notes of the 12th this is hardly something the human ear can directly discern. A3's 2nd is placed such that A3 has a comfortable 6:3 relationship with A4, whilst at the same time maintaining an acceptable narrowness with D3's 3rd... typically about 0.35 bps... also very very standard stuff.  In fact... the only real area of significant divergence from a standard tuning scheme is found in the area around A5- E6 in which octave based tuning curves usually display a temporal shift in direction for the resulting 12ths.  The P 12ths tuning results in the most singing and warm treble I have ever heard from a tuning... as long as one is careful not to allow any error on the wide side of just 12ths. This is because of the natural warmness of pure intervals, and because of the resulting calm of the double and triple octaves this yields.  But beyond the warmth this creates the constancy in major 10ths and 17ths that also results, and the increased sustain times resulting from frequent incidence of pure coinciding partials in the octaves AND 12ths contributes to a clarity in addition to the warmth this tuning imparts. If you have had strange resulting 5ths from attempting an aural implementation of this tuning... then you have not succeeded in tuning it precisely enough  I would guess, as one of the most pleasing results of this tuning is the resulting 5ths. Jim Coleman  mentioned this in a private note to me, along with his opinion that resulting octaves in the fore mentioned range (A5 - E6) were particular illy pleasing. Reading through the rest of your comments... it seems to me that you havent really understood what the P 12ths tuning is all about... as in several spots you allude to a high stretch factor that simply does not exist in such a tuning.  Anyone tuning double  octaves that are wide enough to begin to silence triple octaves is contriving a tense and piercing tuning  indeed, which goes tonally in the opposite direction of the warmth you indicate below. Not that there are not uses for this approach mind you. I havent had opportunity to tune with the VT yet, so I will certainly reserve comment as to the nature of its standard tuning. Tho I imagine it to be a fine ETD.  And by the way.... I personally thought the violinist was from time to time a bit less then on top of his game intonation wise. What you deemed as fourths slightly smaller then the pianos... I deemed as just plain flat, at least at several instances sitting in the concert hall.  And I wasnt the only one judging from the discussion afterwards. Perhaps understandable since he was suffering from a very bad cold. Cheers RicB Isaac OLEG wrote: <blockquote cite="midMABBLJGEBJDPJHIACJBAOEFDFOAA.oleg-i@noos.fr" type="cite"> <title></title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name="GENERATOR"> </blockquote> </body> </html>