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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Thanks, Hubert.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I have tried some that are cloth circles/washers
sewn together, but they seem too aggressive. I was wondering about the
availability of ones with different materials.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I feel I will have to go the mail order route, but
I need an address.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I will be driving to MARC, from the east coast,
what are the names of some stores I could try?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I will be passing Bangor, Portland, down the
corridor to Hartford, then west, but north of New York
City.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John M. Ross<BR>Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada<BR><A
href="mailto:jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca">jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca</A></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=hubertliverman@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:hubertliverman@bellsouth.net">hubert liverman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 06, 2005 1:57
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Moulded Keytops, problems
buffing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Hi,John</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I have a motor out of a clothes washer
that rotates at 1760 rpm. I put a chuck on the shaft and it works for
misc small jobs. Yard sale season is at hand and you should be able to pick
one up to try at very little expense.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>HubertLiverman</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Tuner/tech</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Opelika,Al</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Joe had mentioned problems
buffing.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I also have problems in this
area.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I had thought on a softer buffing wheel, but
have been unable to find a source. The selections available at my suppliers,
are limited. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Any ideas?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I had thought on slowing the wheel down. Would
that help?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>John M. Ross</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><A
href="mailto:jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca">jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca</A>
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
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<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=keymaestro@verizon.net
href="mailto:keymaestro@verizon.net">MICHAEL MORVAN</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 06, 2005 11:50
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Moulded Keytops</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joe,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I agree with you 100%,
thank you, it is wonderful that you know these things and are willing to
share them. Molded keytops are all the same dimension within one set.
Keysticks unfortunately are not (except for several sets of Yamaha keys
I've covered that were within 0.004 of each other). I've found that
most sets of keys differ in length, width and height. I have one set of
keys I'm recovering now where the keysticks vary in width up to 0.065.
This makes recovering them tricky. If you have a keystick wider than the
top you will have to trim the stick, if the top is wider you will have to
trim the top. Molded tops being the same width have the contours and
radiuses "molded" into them, so if you trim this you will, as you said
then have to reshape them, the radiuses and contour to match and yes, the
dreaded buffing. I prefer to apply what I call custom tops. This is
similar to factory procedures in which you apply a separate top and
front. If done this way one can trim the excess and shape the keys
regardless of the inconsistencies in width and yield good visual results.
I've found that buffing plastic and ivory both have there areas of
concern, but I use different wheels and techniques for both with good
results. On the topic of keytop materials, I'm pretty sure I have all
of the material available within the states and offer them. I have also
acquired material from Aug. Laukhuff and Otto Heuss from Germany as
well as P&S organ supply from England. These materials are of very
high quality and texture but expense prevents their wide use. I've noticed
that piano manufacturers are trending towards thicker and thicker tops,
this means replacement tops will need to be thicker. I actually have a
stash of keytop material that is 0.105 thick, but very rarely use them. I
am not adverse to machining down the keystick to accommodate a new top
because I am doing it on milling machines with tolerances to within a few
thousandths of an inch, and it must be done. If one measures a keystick at
0.970 and is putting on a top that is 0.075 than you machine the key to
0.895 and you have retained the original dimension. The original dimension
must be maintained or there will be a regulation nightmare. In some
cases I find that a keystick has been machined with little regard for
tolerances, and then a corrective measure must be applied. Three choices
exist, have a new keyboard made, use a thicker or thinner top (depending
on which direction the error is made), or build up the keys. Two of these
choices are very expensive. Keytop replacement is tricky and is a decision
that should be well thought out. The keyboard is a major focal point
of the piano, it is the interaction point with the piano and is the
foundation of all regulation. It is a challenge to balance appearance,
playability and economy. Joe, what do you mean by "stink in my shop?" are
you referring to a particular glue or the smell of machining off old
plastic and ivory? Mike</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=joegarrett@earthlink.net
href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">Joe Garrett</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 06, 2005 1:03
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Moulded Keytops</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Michael Morvan said: "<FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>The quality of the keytop, quality of the
=<BR>piano, quality of the rebuild, preference of the customer,
knowledge and =<BR>preference of the technician and budget. Crappy
"molded" keytops are =<BR>nice if applied properly, and three thousand
dollars worth of new ivory =<BR>is "crappy" if not applied properly.
Molded keytops have the advantage =<BR>of being inexpensive, uniform in
shape and appearance, and relatively =<BR>easy to apply with minimal
skill, tooling and yields fair results. A =<BR>disadvantage is
that many people feel that they are a cheap top and as a =<BR>result do
not use them."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Michael,</DIV>
<DIV>What you've said, I agree with. However, it's what you didn't say
about moulded keytops that concerns me.</DIV>
<DIV>1. Moulded keytops assumes that all key sets are the same
dimension, which they are not. Therefore, trimming is necessary. Here
lies the rub, as trimming of moulded keytop material is far more
difficult than other materials. Especially in making the key set look
consistant and have a smooth feel under the players hands. Secondly, if
you've ever had to (try) to buff out scratches of moulded key top
material, (and I'm sure you have, if you do keytops for a living.), it's
next to impossible, as the material is too soft and will "burn/gaul"
when even light pressure on a buffing wheel is applied. I'm not saying
it can't be done, but it's a royal pain in the patoot to do!<G>
Lastly, my aversion to moulded keytops is that it is too thick,
especially for many older pianos with tight tolerances of the piano
furniture. This requires milling the keystick down. I am totally averse
to this practice for many reasons. Some of the "moulded keytop material"
from Europe is better as some of it is what we call "Plexiglass". This
material can be sanded and buffed. It's still too thick for my
eye.<G> I too do keytops, but as only part of my overall service
to my clients. I used to have someone else do it, as I really don't like
the stink in my shop. Out of frustration with others I've taken to doing
it....stink or not.<G></DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joe Garrett, R.P.T.<BR>Captain, Tool
Police<BR>Squares R
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