<html> <body> Hi Andre - A shocking splash of sadistic reality, Not what I would have imagined from the civilized Dutch. My point, as you courageously demonstrated, is, to try.  How would you feel if you never said anything? Perhaps you could have made your point by coming to a performance (or a rehearsal) and turning on a vacuum cleaner.  A mere thought. Regards David Skolnik Full of mere thoughts At 07:25 PM 11/12/2004 +0100, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Hi David Skolnik, Of course it is true that there circumstances where you can train the stage crew of a certain theater to be quiet when you are tuning. However, in most, or at least many cases, this is not possible and in that case you just have to live with it. Here is a clear example : I worked for some time for the most famous concert hall in Holland, and my expectations were that they would help me to do the best that I had to offer, and especially in that place (the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam). The opposite was the case! They did not give a damn whether I had a hard time or not. All they said in response to my complaints was that the tuners before me had never complained and that I 'd better be a big boy now. Whatever I said... it did not help. At a certain moment it was so bad that 2 people were vacuum cleaning the stage and the seating rows at the same time while I was preparing a gorgeous instrument for a famous pianist! It should actually be enough to stop the job, pack your tools and get the hell out. And you know what? After a long time of this humiliating treatment... I packed my tools, and I got the hell out, and I never returned, even though this was the most prestigious client I had ever had. There are however other cases where you try to keep the job, even if it is almost impossible. That's where you have to grin and ignore. André On 12-nov-04, at 15:45, David Skolnik wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Hi Kent - I don't think we disagree.  I credit my own early theatre-tuning experience with the my ability to through-tune, but I'm going for a little nuance here.  Let me say this.  As to how many of those same people would ever again be confronted with a piano tuner at work, why should you assume it to be so unlikely?  These were stage hands and such.  The next time, they might very likely remember...maybe it would take a few times.  That's a learning curve. As to the existential characteristics, I am trying to distinguish between those conditions which are mutable from those that are im-,  (pi).  I see no virtue in suffering in silence if, by speaking up, the situation can be altered, and I don't accept the idea that asking / demanding silence ought to be experienced as humiliating. As for your recent experience, congratulations.  It would be interesting to hear the circumstances surrounding such a nightmare, but I think your story illuminates my point on multiple levels.  For example, what if some aspect of the tuning had, in fact, proved inadequate?  Maybe starting out good, but slipping.  How would you have felt if some critical attention had been brought to the piano, despite your heroic effort.  It certainly wouldn't be fair, but you might also attribute that to the tuners' existential dilemma. Why, in such a panic situation, was it impossible for the venue managers to control the conditions for you?  Why SHOULD such heroics be allowed to become the standard, as illustrated by the quote from Carol Beigel's post,  "Yeah, the real professionals can deal with anything". Overall, a much wordier version of what David Love just posted. David Skolnik At 06:50 AM 11/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>On Nov 12, 2004, at 12:02 AM, Davi= d Skolnik wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>The point is, SOMEONE has to teach these people.  If I (or you) don't tell them, why SHOULD they know better? </blockquote> You are right. My position is indefensible. But it is my position, nevertheless. I wonder how many of those people that you successfully shooed away will ever be faced with the same situation again. Next time it is likely to be different people making noise and needing to be educated. This is the piano tuner's existential dilemma, as far as I can see. We can suffer (the noise) in silence, or we can suffer the humiliation of having to ask for quiet. Suffering in silence involves no break in tuning, and doggedly continues the progress toward a finished tuning. Last weekend I tuned for Olga Kern, the Cliburn gold medalist. I had prepared one piano in ideal conditions, but there was a last minute change of pianos. I had half an hour to bring the other piano up to pitch and tune it at the last minute while chaos reigned in the hall. Impossible. But as far as they know, I did it, and the reviews of the concert were raves. Maybe I was able to do that because of the experience I have tuning in adverse conditions. ? Kent _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives">http://www.ptg.org= /mailman/listinfo/pianotech</a> </blockquote> _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: <a= href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives">http://www.ptg.org/m= ailman/listinfo/pianotech</a> </blockquote>friendly greetings from André Oorebeek "where Music is, no harm can be" </blockquote></x-html> </blockquote></body> </html>