<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>   Billbrpt@AOL.COM wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>  What happens is a canceling out effect in the Rapidly Beating Intervals (RBI), e.g., 3rds, 6ths, 10ths & 17ths that make them sound much purer than they really are.  This is not an imaginary effect.  It is the same effect found in such acoustical tricks as Noise Cancellation Systems and Beat Eliminators.  The gist of it is that when there are two sets of beats occurring at the same time, they phase each other out so that they are not perceived by the ear.    </blockquote> You know Bill,,, I am begginning to understand that this is a bit more important then I origionally thought some months ago when I first heard you talk about beat cancelling effects other then in unisons. Recent discussions about Virgils "natural beats" and a couple not sooooo distantly related threads about ETD's have gotten me to listening to things a bit closer these past couple months... and I am becomming convinced there is something to all this ...something that puts the "natural beat" concept, and this beat cancelling effect... all into some focus... One little thing for folks interested in such to try. Take two strings of a unison... tune it out so that there is a couple beats per second going... then very slowly pull it close to clean... and listen real close to whats going on as it gets past any discernable beating. To my ear... the first thing that happens is that you get to this really slow kind of "meeeeoooowwwww " point. Not really a beat there the "meow" is way to slow can stretch over a few seconds.... then past that there is a spot where you get what seems to me like a "beat" that happens only once and isnt there afterwards.. This is a pretty quick "beat", and after its one cycle the unison sound clean. When you get that quite the unison is dead dead on. Now I am finding really similiar effects in octaves and double octaves, and the effect on my tunings is like....wow.... I think really that this basic effect is available in some sense or another in just about any temperament configuration. Depends perhaps on what you are trying to create in each instance just where its usefull. This is still pretty vague in my mind (and ears) yet.. but your paragraph caught my eye and I thought you might like reading of this experience I have had lately.   Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. Bergen, Norway <A HREF="mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no">mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no</A> Just because we cant explain a thing doesnt mean it isnt there.... course it doesnt mean it is either but thats the just the flip side of the matter.</html>