<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; = FONT-FAMILY: Verdana" bottomMargin=7 bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 = rightMargin=7> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello Dave - you said: <FONT = face=Verdana size=3> </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Verdana size=3><FONT = size=2>"some pianos have tricord dampers with fingers that extend far below the level of the = string." </FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>S&S maintain that the split damper felts should = be cut to show "no winking" below the strings. Not only does this dispense with = that "friction" you mention, but that same friction induces a "shushing" = noise which is unacceptable in a recording. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Michael G.(UK)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=Piannaman@aol.com href="mailto:Piannaman@aol.com">Piannaman@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 30, 2005 = 2:26 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: raising damper = lift to lighten touch</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Verdana color=#000000 = size=3> <DIV> <DIV>Greg,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is plain to me from the work I did on the Seiler that = there is a noticeable difference when the dampers lift later.  I did a = downweight check on a few keys, and the difference was around 5-6 grams.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing that made me consider doing it at all was this:  = some pianos have tricord dampers with fingers that extend far below the = level of the string.  This creates a fair amount of friction.  It's = easy to find by pushing the key slowly.  Compare keys with over-long = tricord dampers to keys with blocks.  Big difference in feel!  It = was obvious to me from that observation that dampers indeed play a role in = key touchweight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I experimented with a few consecutive dampers before I did the = whole piano, and did a blind test with two of the store salesmen.  = I had them try two contiguous white keys, one  with adjusted lift, and = one before adjustment.  We could all feel the difference, especially = with pianissimo playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It may not be the ideal solution for a heavy touchweight, = but given that the piano hadn't been sold yet, I didn't want to do = something that would have been more difficult to reverse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the input,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dave Stahl</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a message dated 7/30/05 12:15:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, grahampianos@yahoo.com writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px = solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 = size=2>Does damper timing impact touch at normal playing<BR>speeds?  (We = are talking about grand pianos here).<BR><BR>My chapter held a lengthy = technical last month on<BR>touchweight.  The dampers were lifted by the pedal<BR>when using gram weights on the keys to check up and<BR>down = weight, thus eliminating damper weight from the<BR>equations.  = <BR><BR>Someone asked the instructor about the effect of the<BR>dampers.  The = answer was:<BR><BR>"The touchweight we feel at normal playing speed = is<BR>mostly inertial, getting the hammer and shank up to<BR>speed.  By the = time the key hits the damper<BR>underlever, inertia of the key does the work of<BR>lifting the dampers, the hammer is moving close to<BR>full = speed, the initial inertial load has dropped, and<BR>you hardly feel the damper = at all."   <BR><BR>Inertial effects and "real" touchweight at = playing<BR>speeds are much harder to measure than slow-motion = or<BR>static weights, so we rely on our sense of touch.  I'm<BR>not = sensitive enough yet to feel small differences, so<BR>I have a hard time proving or = disputing the claim<BR>above.<BR><BR>In light of our very detailed analysis of = the action<BR>we worked on, hammer weight and key leading are = the<BR>first things to check, and the easiest to change, if<BR>an action is too = heavy (assuming friction and geometry<BR>problems have been ruled = out).  Dampers didn't make it<BR>to the top ten.<BR><BR>Damper timing does = have a significant effect on the<BR>ability to play legato or = staccato.  Early lift makes<BR>it easier to play legato.  Some jazz pianists = prefer a<BR>late lift for lots of separation, articulation, = or<BR>"bite".  At least that is the opinion of a few of our<BR>chapter's more senior techs.  Sounds reasonable to me.<BR><BR><BR>Greg Graham<BR>PTG Associate Member, Lehigh Valley PA<BR>(written and tech exam passed, = tuning yet to go)<BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>