<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=windows-1252"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=Ray@Bentley.net href="mailto:Ray@Bentley.net">Ray T. = Bentley</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> October 12, 2000 6:41 = PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Two Questions in One = Post</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Secondly,  I learned many years ago that we = hear no fundamental in the lowest notes of pianos.  But I was under the impression that perhaps there would be fundamental heard in the lowest = notes of concert grands.  I had a few minutes after the last tuning of = a Steinway D that I prepared for a concert, and used the RCT Pianalyzer = to measure the harmonics of the lowest octave.  I found that no = fundamental was recorded until A1.  This means that even on that piano there = is no fundamental pitch heard on the entire first octave of the piano.  = Have any of you done any extensive research on this?  Is this true of = most concert grands, or only on the one I happened to try this = on?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Ray T. Bentley, RPT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Alton, IL</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=2> <HR dir=ltr> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Ray,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr>Yes, there will be some measurable and audible energy at = the fundamental frequency of even A-1in a piano such as the Steinway Model = D. Perhaps not as much as we would like, but there will be = some. Exactly how much there will be in this particular piano will be a function of how = well the soundboard is performing, the condition and voicing of the hammers, the condition of the bass strings, etc.</DIV> <DIV dir=ltr> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr>You are not able to get an indication using your RCT for = a variety of reasons. First, I'm not sure the RCT is set up to give any indication = at all at frequencies as low as 27.5 cps. You'd have to check with Dean Reyborn = on that. Secondly, I doubt that the microphone in your computer works very = well at these frequencies. It takes a pretty good microphone to give good, = uniform frequency response through the entire audio frequency band -- especially = down in the low bass. Even quite good professional audio mikes often exhibit = substantial roll-off at frequencies below 50 to 100 Hz. I don't know about the = rest of the audio section of your computer -- the electronics portion should be pretty easy to get right these days. Still, I expect it is some = removed from that found in professional measuring equipment.</DIV> <DIV dir=ltr> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr>On a broader scale, how much energy there will be in the = audio output of the piano is dependent on a number of closely inter-related = factors. Some of these are:</DIV> <UL dir=ltr> <LI> <DIV>The speaking length of the strings. Obviously, longer = strings will have a greater potential to develop energy at low frequencies, but = there will be some fundamental energy even in quite short bass = strings.</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>The length of the string backscale. If the back scale is very = short, the motion of the bass bridge will be so restricted that most, or all, of = the fundamental energy will be blocked at the bridge. </DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>The stiffness to mass relationship of the soundboard. If the = soundboard is not adequately compliant it will not move easily at very low frequencies.</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>The location of the bass bridge relative to the inner rim of the = piano. If the bridge is located very close to the inner rim, the soundboard = will not be free to move adequately at very low frequencies to develop enough = sound energy for us to hear.</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>The construction of the bass bridge. If the bass bridge is = mounted on a cantilever, some percentage of low frequency energy will be absorbed = just moving the cantilever. Bass bridge cantilevers tend to filter out very = low frequency energy.</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>Design of the string termination at the plate. Other factors = being similar, designs using vertical hitchpins -- i.e., Baldwin, = Walter grand, etc. -- have greater potential to develop more acoustic energy in the = low frequency tone envelope than do designs using the older, more = conventional hitch pin arrangements.</DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV>The physical characteristics of the string. If the core wire is excessively large, relative to its length, energy at very low = frequencies will not be excited in the string. Energy at higher frequencies will = overwhelm low frequency energy. </DIV></LI> <LI>Excessively hard/dense hammers. These hammers tend to excite = higher frequency partials at the expense of the fundamental.</LI></UL> <DIV dir=ltr>There are probably a few other things I'm forgetting here = -- but it's late and I'm tired. This should give you at least a general idea of = what is involved in developing acoustic energy at low frequencies.</DIV> <DIV dir=ltr> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr>From the looks of 'modern' piano design, little effort = has been put into this aspect of piano performance. Still, in most pianos, with the = obvious exception of some rather badly designed sub six-foot pianos, there = should be some measurable and audible fundamental energy within the tone = envelope.</DIV> <DIV dir=ltr> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr>Regards,</DIV> <DIV dir=ltr> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr>Del</DIV> <DIV dir=ltr>Delwin D Fandrich<BR>Piano Designer & = Builder<BR>Hoquiam, Washington  USA<BR>E.mail:  <A href="mailto:pianobuilders@olynet.com">pianobuilders@olynet.com</A><BR>= Web Site:  <A href="http://pianobuilders.olynet.com/">http://pianobuilders.olynet.com= /</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>