<html> At 06:44 PM 8/20/2005 -0400, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>It's= been a while since I tried it.... I think I was trying to glue an upright jack flange to the wippen. I used Hot Stuff medium viscosity CA and Tightbond. I put CA on one piece of wood and Tightbond on the other and pressed together. I recall I gave it several minutes or so and nothing seemed to happen. I got discouraged and just did the CA and kicker thing.   How long do you find the reaction taking?   Terry Farrell</blockquote> Hello, Terry. It happens immediately, within seconds. I'm not sure what happened when you tried it. I don't have any experience with that combination of glues. I went over and Googled to find my original posts to pianotech about the glue trick -- I called it the "CA quirk" the first time I said anything about it. I had been using the process for at least five years before that. Here are a few quotes from 1997: <<When trying to quiet jingling pedal dowels in uprights, I like to put 2 bushing cloth "ears" through the hole for the pedal dowel pin; but I would have to wait around if the action were out, or I'd have a terrible time trying to clamp the ends together with clothes pins if the action were still in. (read: "spinet") I found out that I can put on the normal amount of white glue, press the two cloth halves together to spread it out, let them spring apart, add a tiny drop of CA glue, and _immediately_ press together again, with instant bonding. I now use it that way for repairs where clamping just isn't convenient or possible, with good results. Hope it helps someone, some time, someone in a hurry, probably. >> <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017525.html"= eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017525.h= tml</a> Tom Cole tried it, from that description: << Susan, I just went out to the shop to verify your discovery. I put some white glue on the end of a strip of felt, folded it over to spread it out, then split the halves apart to drop in some CA glue. After an immediate closing of the halves, the glue hardened - probably took one or two seconds. To see what happened, I split the halves apart again and observed that the CA had hardened but the white glue was still liquid. So, I'm going to suggest that the _white glue_ is the accelerator for the _CA_. In the latest handout that comes with shipments from Ed Dryburgh, it states that bases act as accelerators (as opposed to acids or plain water). Possibly, the pH of white glue is greater than 7.0. I think it's a great idea to use where a slow setting glue is called for and time or clamping is a challenge. -- Thomas A. Cole RPT >> <a= href="https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017538.html"= eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017538.<= /a><a href="https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017538.html"= eudora="autourl">html </a>I replied --- <<Tom -- Thanks for the corroboration. I've never heard of anyone except me using CA this way, though it can come in very handy at times. I've done it for about 5 years. While I mainly use CA and white glue with cloth or felt, it works with leather too, and sometimes I glue wooden parts together the same way, holding them together with my hands till the CA sets. I haven't heard of the joints failing so far. I try not to stress them overly till the white glue would have set up anyway. Wooden parts that fit together very well could be glued with CA alone, of course, but I use the combination when they aren't quite such a close fit, but the contact isn't poor enough to demand a gap-filler like epoxy. I think you're right about which glue is doing what, and I hadn't heard about the pH data, but it may account for the results. I always thought that the white glue makes the real glue joint, while the CA just holds it closed long enough for the white glue to set up. It takes a surprisingly small amount of CA to work.>> <a= href="https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017540.html"= eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017540.<= /a><a href="https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/1997-May/017540.html"= eudora="autourl">html </a>Terry, this was enough that some people started experimenting. Steve Brady tried it for a corfam replacement job, and then emailed me asking if I'd write it up for the Journal. Hope this helps -- and thanks for sending me down memory lane. I just about lived on the list back then! Then (late May early June 1997) there were some posts about using CA as part of a "concrete foundation" by packing a gap with wood flour or chalk dust, and wetting it with CA. I haven't followed up on that one, but I probably should. And there, in May 1997, was Bill Simon's post entitled "World Class Junk." It was so suggestive a subject line that I asked him if I could use it for the series of articles I wrote for the Journal, though the original thread was about how to set an ETD to get decent results tuning spinets, instead of being about patching together rotten old pianos. Best, Susan </html>