<HTML>In a message dated 12/13/01 9:02:12 PM Central Standard Time, mcpiano@globetrotter.net (Marcel Carey) writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Double octave were about 2bps wich I found disturbing. But, this is what he wanted. When checking the tuning, it was too much stretch, but when he played the piano, it sounded fine. So again, we should be careful to keep the goal in mind. We must tune for music, not for tuning test</BLOCKQUOTE>. This is a very fine comment and observation, Marcel.  The "Tempered Octaves" that I often speak of can approach your description here.  Even if you usually or only tune ET, look up my article called "Tuning Tempered Octaves" through the link in my new website at the bottom of its index page. I developed this method when I was still tuning ET.  If you use it to tune ET, your octaves will be perfect on the PTG Exam except in the 7th octave where they will score as too sharp but not so much that it would mean a failing score.  It is essentially the same idea the Steve Fairchild RPT uses although I did not understand this until many years after I had made the idea part of my practice. If you make my technique part of your skills, you can tune octaves as accurately and consistently as you would using an ETD.  It is only when I use this idea with my EBVT that *some* of my double octaves beat slightly.  In ET, they are so slightly stretched that they will be neither disturbing to you as you tune or musically. When Jim Coleman and Virgil Smith heard my octaves back in 1993, they were impressed, interested and wanted to know how I did them.  It is really so very easy that I jokingly call them "Mindless Octaves" because the technique will give you such accuracy and consistency so easily that you cannot help but be accurate regardless of how you may be feeling at the time. There are two other instances where I remember Jim Coleman saying something very positive about this idea publicly:  "...he tunes *beautiful* octaves..." (to a group of technicians) and as I was talking to Dr. Sanderson, Jim was there also and had Dr. Sanderson take special note of what I had to say.  Essentially, it is an *Equal Beating* compromise between the Double Octave and the Octave and Fifth. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin <A HREF="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . c o m =-</A> </HTML>