<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10"> <meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 10"> <link rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01C50B8F.9DD1D310"> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple = style='tab-interval:.5in'> <div class=Section1> I agree with you about ETD’s = reducing stress and increasing efficiency (and income). That’s why I use one. = I just find that with a slight bit of tweaking as you go, the tunings can often be improved. Not a huge amount, = but enough to make a difference to some people. = <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> David Love <st1:PersonName>davidlovepianos@comcast.net</f= ont></st1:PersonName> = <o:p></o:p> </div> -----Original = Message----- From: = pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of <st1:PersonName>antares</span= ></st1:PersonName> Sent: Saturday, February = 05, 2005 2:28 PM To: Pianotech Subject: Re: working with = etd's and the customers' la-di-da <o:p> </o:p> On 5-feb-05, at 23:02, David Love wrote:<o:p></o:p> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param = 0000,0000,8080><?x-tad-bigger>There is a fair amount of discussion on the VT forum about tweaking styles in = order to achieve the right tuning for particular pianos.  The default = style settings have built into them a certain amount of stretch in each octave = of the piano based on subjective research about what sounds best.  None of = the settings show a pure octave on any particular octave of the piano but = are expanded or contracted using a particular octave type as a basis.  = Are you generally tuning on the “average”, “expanded” or “clean” setting, or a custom style = of your own or perhaps one of Ron Koval’s (or mine) who contributed much to the discussion? =  A one style fits all (stretch) was something I was working on quite a bit and was = not able to find one that worked for everything.  Even when I did find a = good style fit, sometimes there would be a note or two or three that needed to be = modified to keep a smooth sequence of thirds or octaves throughout the = piano.  I found that the “average style” tended to stretch the bass = more than I liked.  <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily> I found (after experimenting with the stretch possibilities in that = machine) that the 'average' tuning suits me best. "Average" tuning meaning already stretched, just like a = 'regular' tuning made by human ears. Of course a discussion about styles is out of the question, just not = possible. <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param = 0000,0000,8080><?x-tad-bigger>I think the VT has a lot of nice options that allow you to custom set = everything to your liking.  But I was never able to trust it (or any other = machine for that matter) enough to tune without listening and checking at least somewhat.  In fact, the only complaints I have really gotten about tunings, ironically, were when I did an A0 – C88 tuning without = any interval checking.  <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily> Let me 'try' to put it this way : The best tuning I ever made in two hours time, was my final exam tuning = at the Yamaha Academy. It took me a full month of intense training to reach = that level. There was btw no choice, one was obliged to get the highest mark, = or no certificate. After I got home, it took me some time to 'come down' and realize that I = had undergone an incredible learning experience, but at the same I realized = that I would probably never tune like that again for very simple and economical reasons : Nobody is going to pay me for that very same effort. The machine I use, may have its flaws, or not.... by using it, I learned = one thing very quickly : This thing gave me instantly the tuning I had trained for so hard. In Holland we have a saying : "I chose eggs for my money", and decided to stop fooling around and try to be a hero, which I am not. I am now 56. My ears are still ok, but pretty soon they will go down, = just like my eyesight. Furthermore, there are pianos one can simply not tune = because they are so rotten they make you ill by the time you're finished. My ETD takes care of all of that and do my work humming happily, because = I can concentrate on doing much more important work : making very nice = unisons. In my opinion, nobody gives a damn whether a'''' is slightly high or = that B contra is an eyebrow hair too low. If the overall tuning is on a level of say 95 %, it is a concert tuning = of the highest level and I really have not met any tuner yet who can be that = accurate, and- again -in 45 = minutes!!! <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param = 0000,0000,8080><?x-tad-bigger>I agree that unisons must be tuned by ear.  I am a firm believer in = the use of machines as a second pair of ears.  But I would have to = emphasize as a second pair, one’s own being the first.  A combination = aural/electronic tuning doesn’t take me any longer than 45 min – 1 hour and I = do find them especially useful for setting a perfect and effortless temperament. <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily> It was and is never my intention to force any ETD down anyone's throat. = What do I care? All I would like to make clear, is that there are machines these days = which are VERY hard nuts to crack. If one insists that an aural tuning is better, so be it, I prefer to say = that some aural tuners, probably like David Andersen, are really fantastic = tuners, but that it takes a whole lot of energy and stress to produce 5 of those tunings a day. Working with a near perfect ETD is far less stressful and costs far less energy. Again, the unisons are, in my opinion, more important, and so is the = voicing. See, I choose for an economical use of my time with a maximum = result. <?fontfamily><?param Osaka><?color><?param = 6666,6666,FFFF><?x-tad-bigger>friendly greetings from ANDR<?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Monaco><?color><?param 6666,6666,FFFF><?x-tad-bigger>É OOREBEEK <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Osaka><?color><?param FFFF,6F6F,CFCF>Where 'music' is no harm can be <?/color><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param Monaco><?color><?param = 6666,6666,FFFF><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Osaka><?color><?param = 6666,6666,FFFF><?x-tad-bigger><?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger>www= .concertpianoservice.nl <?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param 3333,3333,3333><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?color><?param = FFFF,6666,6666><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?color><?param = 3333,3333,3333><?x-tad-bigger> <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]><?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?x-tad-bigger><o:p></o:p></fon= t> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></div> </body> </html>