<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=windows-1252"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>In this whole matter, the explanation = always comes first so that there is a reason for the piano to behave = like it does, not an excuse for it.</DIV> <DIV>James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Creator of = Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups (314) 608-4137 <A href="http://www.JamesGrebe.com">WWW.JamesGrebe.com</A> 1526 = Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 BECOME WHAT YOU BELIEVE! <A href="mailto:pianoman@accessus.net">pianoman@accessus.net</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From: <A title=bjsilva001@comcast.net = href="mailto:bjsilva001@comcast.net">Bec and John</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 = 8:18 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: Help with "bad" tuning...need help</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Hi Doug, I haven't had much experience with = tuning pianos very flat or sharp, but I can relay what I've read on this list. Assuming the piano is capable of being tuned to 440, some = have suggested they like to bring the piano all the way up to 440 in the = first tuning session - via multiple passes or over-compensating when setting = the first pitch(es) (something like A442 if bringing it up from A436). I = thought I had read from some who don't think repeated visits are necessary, but = I'm sure there is some debate about that. Also, they tend to charge more for a = tuning with a pitch raise, which is understandable - particularly if they're = doing multiple quick passes. However you decide to handle a pitch = raise, what James Grebe said I think is good. Make it specifically (rather than = casually) known up-front what the customer should expect as far as what is = required from you to get the piano in tune (as he says, "another tuning in 2 weeks = and then 3 months"). - John <BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>As a new piano = tuner, I am learning a lot as I go and tune different<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>piano’s and typically I am tuning the older piano’s and some = new/better<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>ones.  This past Sat. I tuned a piano for a home that had a = console<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>that had never been tuned ‘in a long time’. I warned them that I = might<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>break strings and that it will go out of tune quickly because of the = condition<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>of the strings and the piano itself. Well I was called back = by<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>the customer saying ‘the piano is still out of tune and you must = not<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>have checked it before you left’.  Before I left I told him, = ‘your piano<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>is most likely going to go flat somewhat because it has not been = tuned<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>at all in such a long time (20+ yrs) and that it should tuned every 6 = months. The<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>piano was old and recently had some action work, but the strings = looked<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>old and dirty.  I was careful not to break any strings and when I = left it sounded<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>good and the funny thing was the customer said it sounded good after I = finished.<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>It was not that out of tune, A440 sounded like it was between g-sharp = and a, but<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>not an entire half/step = off.<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfa= mily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>So, what do I do now? Has anyone been in my shoes before? Go back = and<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>do a ‘free’ fix it up tuning, or tell him, he has to pay for a = 2<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-smaller>nd<?/x-tad-smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>tuning. Is = this<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>going to risk my reputation? He had the action done by another local PTG = member<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>and I am afraid that if I don’t go back and ‘fix’ this, I am going = to get that<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>reputation and the other PTG member might tell others about the ‘part time’ = tooner,<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>which I do not want to be and this is why I joined the PTG, to get better. = Any<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>thoughts on this would be greatly = appreciated.<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfa= mily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>I thought the tuning was good, inspite of the condition of the piano = and the strings.<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>It sounded alot better, but I knew it was going to need another tuning = soon.<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfa= mily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Any advice, = thoughts?<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfa= mily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Thanks.<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontf= amily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Doug Renz<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Associate PTG member, Rochester, NY<?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT= ML>