<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>   Ron Nossaman wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>>But I am still unclear about this second class lever >perspective.  Where is the fulcrum, load and input points exactly ? Strikes me >more like its just entially a second capstan / heel relationship. >Especially since >it behaves predictably so if its placed behind the standard capstan. Unclear in what way? I'm not sure I know any other way to explain it other than the way I have.</blockquote> Hmmm... let me quote your two explaning posts in this regard... and perhaps you will see why I dont understand where you have placed this 2nd class lever.   <blockquote>>Not sure I follow you here. A second class lever is one in which the fulcrum is at one end, the load in the middle, and the input at the opposite end. That's right. The wippen magnet is the input for auxiliary lift, taking some load off the capstan. When the key is played, the magnet on the wippen becomes the inertial load on a third class lever with the capstan as input as well as still being input on the second class lever taking some load off the capstan.</blockquote> And <blockquote>First class lever in the key, second class lever from the magnet lift of the wippen. From a play standpoint, that shouldn't be a problem since the increase progression should be shallow and smooth, and everything is already moving. There is one more thing though. You have a second class lever doing the lifting, but you also have extra inertial mass on both the second class lever (key) and the third class lever (wippen). Where the magnet lift is a second class lever, providing a mechanical advantage, the inertial mass presents a third class lever and an increased penalty.</blockquote> Why dont you make it simple for me :)....  just tell me where you see the fulcrum, point of effort, and point of load for this 2nd class lever and let me ponder that for a bit. You've already given the input as being the magnet on the whippen. Wheres the fulcrum and the loadpoint then ?... the whippen center (fulcrum) and the weight of the top action on the magnet (load) ?? The bit about the magnet on the whippen becoming an inertial load on the thirdclass (whippen) lever is clear.       -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. UiB, Bergen, Norway <A HREF="mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no">mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no</A> <A HREF="http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html">http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html</A> <A HREF="http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html">http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html</A>  </html>