<HTML>List, This has been a healthy and productive discussion.  First let me agree with and underscore those who have said that time spent may be relative.  I have noticed too that I often spend *more* time "polishing" as Susan put it, a really good piano which is hardly out of tune at all. It reminds me of the "Measure" button on the SAT.  To a certain extent, the farther off pitch a note is, the faster this feature zeros in on it.  When tuning a typical console that is typically out of tune, I can often get to the proper pitch with just one quick stroke of the tuning hammer during the first pass.  This is precisely the goal as George Defebaugh used to teach it.  There is no point in taking any longer.  This procedure which really need not take more than 15 minutes sets the piano up to really take a good, stable tuning.  If you are lucky, that first pass yields many if not most strings already in tune, needing no correction.  Since it doesn't take much time to *not* have to tune a string, the fine tuning may not take very long either. On the other hand when working at the very highest level, I may listen to unisons for a long period just to see if there is any "roll" at all.  I may strike a key forcefully several times just to see if I can get it to budge or not.  Ironically, this can take much longer than just popping a string which is substantially off right up to where it belongs. Tuning is an art, yes but we full timers make a living by practicing our art.  To a truly affluent person, the amount the best of us may get for a tuning is "peanuts".  To make a good living, we all must work quite hard.  Not everybody wants to work that hard but that usually means a more modest lifestyle too.  This means cranking out tuning after tuning or as, the case may be, pinblock after piblock or soundboard after soundboard. When I was doing rebuilding, it used to take me about 15 hours to get a piano strung and chipped to pitch.  If you've ever watched a factory stringer, they work at amazing speed and with superb accuracy too.  It only takes them a few hours.  One of the most important things I learned at the Kimball factory seminar in 1982 was that if I really wanted to be tops in my profession, I needed to be able to do virtually everything I do with the speed, accuacy and consistency that a factory worker has.  I worked on that goal so today, not only can I tune with great speed but align and regulate too. Sometimes we have to do a job for a certain price, knowing we'll not get any more.  Speed gets that low profit job behind us.  One good example for me was getting the school accounts.  Here, they like to buy Yamaha P-22's.  While I can think of many pianos I like better, I like them because they are easy to service. These pianos come into the schools and get their first "free" tuning, then six months later the same guy comes back, does the second 15 minute tuning, checks all the boxes on the card that goes back to the factory, fraudulently signs his name indicating that all of that work was done and collects his $35.  I know this is what is done and many other people have indicated similar observations. I make this situation work for me.  After these two "free" tunings, the teacher is glad she can finally call me and pay twice what the other guy got (but which is still below my usual fee) because somehow, the piano just seems so much better after I have serviced it.  It seems so because it is. On a Yamaha P-22, I can do the first pitch raise pass, tighten all hammer flanges and align as necessary, pull out the pedal rods, take out the action, tighten all wippen and damper flanges, replace the action and adjust all of the capstans, replace the pedal rods and adjust the pedal action, then do a complete fine tuning in 55 minutes. Many of these pianos have had a problem with loose hammer heads.  I can solve that problem when the action is out in about 3 additional minutes by putting a drop or two of thin CA glue at the hammer joint with the action turned upside down.  Even let off can be adjusted in just a few minutes.  There is a technique for speed and accuracy for everything. Certainly, what I do in such a case in the *usual* amount of time that it is expected to take ends up having vastly different results than my competition provides.  Not only is my tuning far more accurate and stable but it is uniquely crafted, a style which only *I* know how to do.  The competition's is a one pass attempt that ends up being a sloppy and unstable Reverse Well.  Guess whose makes better music? Add that to the positive benefits of the other services I provide and the difference is like night and day.  So, I am the one who is called back to service the piano time and again.  Because I have invested the work which was supposed to have been done in the first place, I have a piano which plays better and holds up longer.  There will be many times thereafter when I can go in and be done in a half hour.  If there are two or more pianos, I multiply my earnings accordingly.  Yes, I can go in after school is out at 3 PM, tune 3 or 4 pianos surpassing the standards of anyone else around and be home in time for the evening news at 5:30. The piano that didn't get that extra work will start to sound very poorly much more quickly and may well have excessive wear and tear because it was not properly serviced in the first place.  The poor fool who then has to try to correct all of that for the low fee that the school will pay has painted himself into a corner.  He hasn't got the skills I have because he hasn't ever practiced them and developed them to the degree that I have.  I can often get the schools to pay where others can't for reconditioning that takes a few hours and really get what my time is worth because I have the reputation for turning out a good "product".  There is music now being taught on many a piano which had previously been considered "junk". These are a few of the reasons why speed, accuracy and consistency are important.  A novice should not expect to be able to develop this kind of skill in just a few months or even years.  It takes a lifetime commitment.  There is certainly nothing wrong with taking two hours to tune a piano if that's what it takes to get it right.  It used to take me that long too.  The speed came with years of persistent effort. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin <A HREF="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . c o m =-</A> </HTML>