<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=windows-1252"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>Mike and List,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If one properly pitch raises an instrument, and finishes with a = solid fine tuning, is there validity saying that the instrument will not hold this = tuning as well as if it were tuned regularly?  I was under the impression = that in this scenario, the instrument would hold tune well, perhaps only = slightly less well than a regularly serviced instrument on which PR are not needed or performed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mkurta@adelphia.net = href="mailto:mkurta@adelphia.net">Mike Kurta</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 17, 2002 = 5:59 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Charging for Pitch = Raises</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>    I never charge for = a pitch raise, however I don't discount if one isn't needed either.  I = used to charge for mileage too,  but don't any more.  One price for = all is my rule now.  I might be a bit higher than the norm for this = area, but I find it all averages out in the end.  I like consistency.  = If a pitch raise is needed, I explain to the customer what I'm doing, and = that the finished tuning will be up to pitch and sound great, but it won't stay = in tune quite as long this first time.  (Assuming its been 3-5 years = since the last tuning, which is often the case).  I then encourage them to = begin an annual tuning schedule which after 2-3 years will bring their piano = back to a stable situation.  I prefer using this method rather than either = (1) raising the pitch in increments, thus leaving the piano at less than = A440, or (2) recommending another tuning be done in 1-3 months, and again = raising pitch in steps.  Not every owner follows this recommendation, but = I hesitate to appear as though I'm pushing more tunings as well as = leaving the piano out of tune.  If I do return in a year, usually follow-up = pitch raises are not necessary, and I feel the slight additional charge for = all tunings covers the occasional pitch raises that are = needed.    Mike Kurta</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=dnereson@dimensional.com href="mailto:dnereson@dimensional.com">Dave Nereson</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 17, = 2002 6:45 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Charging for = Pitch Raises</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=pianowrmonroe@hotmail.com href="mailto:pianowrmonroe@hotmail.com">William R. Monroe</A> = </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 16, = 2002 6:26 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Charging for Pitch = Raises</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>I was reading an old essay (PTJ August '90) by Rick Baldassin = regarding Piano Tuning Stability.  Within that = article, Rick writes about tuning for a concert and remarks that after a = rehearsal, the treble was really out.  'Why?  The treble notes were too = far out of tune to create a stable tuning in one pass on the = tuning.'  He stated that when he tuned the instrument prior to the rehearsal, = the 6th and 7th octaves were flat, 'maybe as much as four cents.'</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, in a nutshell, if your piano is four cents flat, your = tuning will not be stable (for a concert level tuning).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My questions:</DIV> <DIV> 1.) Really?  Is four cents flat too much to get a = stable concert tuning?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.) For our regular clients, when do we begin charging for a = pitch raise, 5 cents, 10 cents, 20 cents?  I realize that neither = all clients, nor their instruments will require this level tuning, but = where do we draw the line and say we must raise pitch to get a stable tuning?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am very interested to hear as many opinions on this one as possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>William R. Monroe<BR>PTG Associate<BR>Salt Lake City, = UT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    Yes, 4 cents flat is probably too flat to = get a stable concert tuning in one pass.  Back when people referred = to beats per second (at A 49) more often than cents, someone at a = seminar said that anything more than 2 beats per second flat would require = a pitch raise to be stable in one pass.  I find (in the home, not = concert tunings) that that's about right most of the time.  </DIV> <DIV>    For clients, whether regular or not, I = suppose you should charge extra for any tuning that requires more passes to stabilize than one on a piano that's already at pitch.  I don't think I've ever done a "one-pass = tuning".  It's always once through to do the initial tuning, = then another time through to re-tune the ones that slipped, then I = take out the ear plugs and go through again for a final touch-up.  = The second two "passes" are very quick and are considered part of the tuning.   </DIV> <DIV>    If I had even a nickel for every free = pitch raise I've done, I could probably buy a new couch or something.  = Sometimes I just don't want to go drag the customer away from what they're = doing to tell them there's going to be an extra charge.  Sometimes I = charge and sometimes I don't -- I know, that's inconsistent, but since = the pitch raise takes only 10 or 15 minutes, I usually just quickly bang it = out rather than go get them to give 'em the lecture about tension, = humidity, dryness, string stretching, tuning every 6 months, etc.  Even = if I do, it doesn't do any good.  They still wait 2 to10 years = before they get it tuned again, even if I leave literature about it.  = I've almost given up on explaining about and charging for pitch raises.  = Almost all pianos I tune need one, except those that get tuned every year = (schools, piano teachers), and even some of those need a "quickie = raise or lower" in the middle, depending what season it was when they were = last tuned.  </DIV> <DIV>      I dunno, for me it's = easier to have the charge for a pitch raise figured in to the "regular" base = fee, and if it doesn't need a p.r., give them a $10 or $15 = discount.      --David Nereson, RPT, Denver</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>