<HTML>In a message dated 9/5/2003 4= :21:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, A440A@aol.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj: now what?, (hammer choices) Date: 9/5/2003 4:21:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: <A HREF="mailto:A440A@aol.com">A440A@aol.com</A> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>= To: <A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet Greetings, So, my C-3 customer that is getting new hammers sez he certainly doesn't <B= R> want them to sound like new STeinway hammers, which to him are too soft and = round sounding,  and he doesn't want the glassy sound that comes from t= he studio C-7's with use and lacquer all over them them.   His knuckles and = shank pinning are too good to throw away, so the stock Yamaha hammers are not the ticket.&= nbsp;    I am trying to make a decision between Piano-tek's Imadagawa,(which I= have used quite a bit of in the past), and their Abel "Standard" series.  He= records this piano in his business, and he wants it to be brilliant without = being harsh from the get-go.  I know I can needle the Imadagawa's  to vi= rtually anywhere I need them, but am intrigued by the Abel.  The only sets I ha= ve heard that I liked had been played a lot.  Do they start out needing a fair a= mount of use to develop?     Anybody wanna make a suggestion between these two? Thanks, Ed Foote RPT </BLOCKQUOTE> &nb= sp;     Ed      OK.  I guess I'll be the contrairian and say t= hat I have more people requesting the removal of the Abels in favor of the s= ound you say your client wants. The complaint is too loud too harsh.  O= ften it's true the voicing hasn't been worked on enough but also the Abels I= 've worked with take sooo much needling (pulverizing) what could possibly be= left of the reselience we say is important. Dunno Though I'm keenly aware of anti -lacquering sentiments among many The Isaac= hammer and Ronsen hammers at times even though they might require light sol= utions produce a sound that is voicing stable and neeling is accomplished ea= sily. Any tech following a properly treated set of these hammers should not = have trouble needling as needed and nor shoulf  the lacquer be detected= unless it was of course over done. I personally find clients attracted to t= his kind of a sound which is clear  and strong but not glassy or too ro= und. If you guys  are getting this kind of sound with some version of A= bels I don't know about please enlighten me.!!      In spite of that comment I've worked on sets that e= ven after the pulverizing sounded very good (Mason & Hamlin A) ,however = that set required substantial & relatively deep needling across the top = of the hammer thru out the tenor & treble but not as much in the bass. <= BR>    As Del & others have intimated previuosly, the stiffness of= hammer required to produce a specific kind of sound in any  piano real= ly depends on the soundboard stiffness and other factors.      I currently have a 6 ft 6 inch grand in house that = has Abels that have been needled nicely  and  great deal by a prev= ious tech.but the client is unhappy with the brightness  & is consi= dering changing them. Another extenuating factor is that the hammers were ma= de very light (on purpose-geometry)(note 52 is 5.3 grams) resulting in the p= roblem of not enough mass to push the string in a piano this large with a so= und board this stiff. They sound fairly good (especially in the bass) but th= e client has a bright room and these particular hammers have more than one p= roblem (toostiff too light)creating an unpleasant sound in the treble. The o= ther piano in shop is a Conover 77 & has either a set is of Abels or Imd= agawa. The hammers are relatively new and incredibly difficult to get needle= s in the high tenor & treble. The sound is strident. I can't detect any = lacquer/plastic solutions. Again the client is displeased with the sound aft= er the new hammers were installed. I will try to needle them but with felt t= hat stiff its often not productive nor fun.    Hey Ed I'm sure you probably don't need my advice but this is m= y two cents worth. Let us know how what you decide on in  the C-3 and h= ow it comes out.    Dale</HTML>