<html><DIV> <P>Phil,</P></DIV> <P>For an effective pitch raise, you either have to be fast or precise (hopefully both...).   I heard about aural pitch raise techniques that can be quite fast (without mutes, reproducing beats rates aurally, etc...) but quite frankly, I think the ear is no match with a *good* visual tuning device in terms or giving the right overpull in the right section of the piano for an optimal target pitch approach.</P> <P>You see, being fast is not all; whatever close we can get to the pitch on the first pass, we have to bear in mind that the pitch of a tuned note WILL ALWAYS DRIFT by an amount between 15% and 30% of the difference between the actual and the target pitch on the second pass, depending of the section of the piano.  So, in some instances, close may be not enough to be zero cent error on the second pass.</P> <DIV></DIV> <P>The big problem when tuning aurally is that you have to deal with pre-drops (pitch already flat before you tune the strings) and post-drops (pitch that goes even flatter as the other strings are pulled up).  The result is that both your reference and your target point keep moving, making an accurate aural pitch correction more hypothetical than realistic.</P> <DIV></DIV> <P>The general idea is to tune first the strings that have more tension in it - and consequently that have more effect on the rest of the piano - and finishing with the strings that have less tension in it.  That's why starting with the bass section up and unisons as-you-go is the most effective way to proceed.</P> <P>A step further for even more precision in a pitch raise is to adjust the overpull percentage according to the section of the piano (less in the bass, much more at the tenor break, etc.).  RCT is the only technology that I know that has that feature.</P> <P>Regards,</P> <P>Michel Lachance, RPT</P> <P>>This subject may or may not have been covered here before, but here goes.. </P> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>I aural tune pianos by strip muting the entire piano. I then take a reading <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>from the SAT at A4 to determine how flat(usually) the piano is. Then I play <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>the piano for a few seconds, covering the entire keyboard to see if it has <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>fallen evenly. If it hasn't(let's say the top 2 octaves seem flatter than <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>the rest of the piano), then I will do a quick, no-listen 'raise' on just <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>the Left unisons from, usually, Octave 6 up...are you with me so far? <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>If the piano seems to have fallen evenly, I set A4 from the SAT, set my <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>temperment (F3-F4), and tune like I normally do. ... more later. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>When I set A4, it is an offset number that I am actually setting to...in <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>other words, if A4 is at -8.2, I offset the machine first, then I set A4. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>I hope this is clear so far. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>As I said earlier, once I am done setting A4, I tune my F3-F4 temperment, <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>and from there, tune down to the first break. Once I reach the first break, <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>I then tune F#4 and up to the next break.. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>So now at this point, for the sake of arguement, I have B2 to C5 single <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>strings tuned. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>I then procede down to the bass, tuning single strings. Once that is done, I <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>come back up and start tuning unisons until I reach C5. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>Once I am at C5, I start tuning single strings till I reach C8. Then I start <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>back at C5 and tune my unisons till I reach the end. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>whew!..I think so far I have explained my aural procedure correctly. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>Here's the question: <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>Using this procedure, can someone tell me why, when I am all done and ready <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>to pack up, when I go to see where A4 is at, it is normally -1.5 to -2 cents <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>from A4? <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>I have been noticing this for awhile, and it has been bugging me..I'm <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>thinking there must be something wrong with the method that I use to aurally <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>tune a piano if A4 keeps coming up flat. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>I noticed this on my first piano today..it was -8.4 at A4..the piano had <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>dropped very evenly, so I did the above procedure..when I got done, A4 <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>measured -1.4. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>ok..time to fight fire with fire!! <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>my next piano was a newer Wurlitzer Grand..this was its second tuning..A4 <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>measured -4.8 when I started..so instead of off-setting from -4.8, I decided <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>to add 2.6 cents to the A4 number, bringing it to -7.4..THEN I off-sett and <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>set A4 and tuned as I usually do. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>When I was done, A4 was dead-on the money. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>My addition of 2.6 cents was pure luck..there was no calculating on my <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>part..i just knew that I had to start with a lower number to get it to <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>finish at A=440. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>When I use the SAT to tune a piano(pitch-raises), my tuning procedure is <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>quite different. I do not use any temperment strips..rather, I use 2 rubber <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>mutes and tune unisons as I go..and every time I get done, no matter how <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>flat that piano was, it always ends up at A=440. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>Am I doing something wrong with my aural procedure? <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>Not too old to learn, <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>StillaRook <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>