<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 = http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=420051500-10081999>Brian,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=420051500-10081999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=420051500-10081999>It all depends on the level of work, amount of time, and what expected earnings = are.  I personally try to make rebuilds look factory.  I don't = always succeed, but I try.  Others don't have that thought at all -never = even consider the idea. Some use Renner, some use Schaff.  Some don't = mind 68 gram touchweight, some do.  Some customers don't notice, or = care.  I say, if it works for you, go for it.  I personally have stopped = sending out contracts and doing estimates because I cannot rebuild profitably.  = So, I see where Wim is coming from and most techs I talk to agree.  I = spend way more hours than you do, there are always unforseen problems, etc.  = I use Renner, expensive bass strings, and Brooks, LTD.  I've tripled = my prices and I still have a hard time seeing it as being a wise = <U>business</U> decision for me.  I have all the tuning, repair, maintenance, and = action work I want, though.  Others have to work at keeping busy.  = The markets vary widely.  I say all of this because you sound like you = are doing a personal survey.  Some guys don't enjoy tuning every day = and do shop work to enjoy their time - that was me.  This is just my = little opinion.  Best of luck.  And remember,  when you're lying = there dying, you won't be complaining that you didn't get to tune or rebuild = enough pianos.  $25 or $100 shop time, you're still dead.........</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=420051500-10081999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=420051500-10081999> <P><FONT size=2>Lance Lafargue, RPT<BR>Mandeville, LA <BR>New = Orleans Chapter<BR> </FONT> </P></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT = face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Brian Trout<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 09, 1999 8:20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> pianotech@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Economics of rebuilding = grands ...Roger<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Hi Roger,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Re: M&H,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I guess it would make a difference what is going = in.  It got a new set of keytops/fronts, keys rebushed, rebedded, sharps refinished, and a new set of hammers which were from Schaff. And, of = course, regulated.  (Schaff hammers need some work, but I've usually had = pretty good luck with getting a nice sound out of them.)  Someone had = already done some action work on the piano when we got it.  It appeared = to have had a new set of knuckles and a pretty thorough replacement of a lot = of the action felts.    </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>The keytops/fronts were done by Walker Piano... = $125  (we did the rebushing ourselves)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Rebedding the keybed... is $15.00 of materials a = reasonable number?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>A set of Schaff hammers... about $150</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>But lets say for the sake of argument that we did = go ahead and spend $1500 for action parts.  Does that mean we didn't make = any money on the job?  Not by a long shot.  (I would actually = have rather spent more on this job, but I'm not the guy who made that decision.)  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>As I have progressed in the detail of work I'm = doing, I have tended to put more into the pianos I do parts wise.  But when you = do that, the hours needed to 'refurbish' all those old parts are = significantly diminished as well.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>As for a few other aspects of the = job...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Soundboard and ribs... North Hudson  around = $575 (includes shipping)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Bridge materials... (guessing) = $25</FONT> (Also from North Hudson)</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Damper felt...(Apsco) $35 = ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT size=2>All = refinishing supplies, (Mohawk, W.Wordak, Decals Unlimited) $250, (includes = decals)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Tuning pins...(Apsco) $65 = ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I'm guessing on some of these = numbers, as I don't have all of the actual costs in front of me.  But I think = I'm in the 'ball park'.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Perhaps for those who go Renner = all the way, costs would be significantly higher.  I have not taken that step yet.  I have used Renner parts on occasion.  They are beautiful.  They are expensive.  As are Hamburg S&S = parts, beautiful and expensive.  But if I can spend a few hundred = dollars on parts, and a few hours of time to make an old action into one that = plays very, very well, I don't feel ashamed that I haven't put on all new Renner parts.  (There are exceptions, ...I'm too tired to get into every = conceivable circumstance...)  'Used' pianos are a lot like used = cars... they're all a little different.  Some need more, some need = less.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Just my take from this angle.  Thanks for = sharing some of your perspective as well.  I look forward to hearing from more = people.  No doubt, we all have a slightly different view.  :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Have a good day.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Brian Trout</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Quarryville, PA</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><A = href="mailto:btrout@desupernet.net">btrout@desupernet.net</A></FONT></D= IV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original = Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>Roger Jolly <<A = href="mailto:baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca">baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca</A>><B= R><B>To: </B><A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> = <<A = href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>><BR><B>Date: </B>Monday, August 09, 1999 12:03 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: = Economics of rebuilding grands<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT size=2><BR><BR><FONT = size=2>Hi = Brian,<BR>          &nb= sp;     I would like to know where you get your inexpensive parts, Action = materials alone cost me about $1,500 US. Add a board, strings, pins, dampers = and misc. other felt products, and the bill would be a lot more than $1,600.<BR>Regards Roger</FONT><BR> <DIV>Roger Jolly</DIV> <DIV>Baldwin Yamaha Piano Centre</DIV> <DIV>Saskatoon and Regina</DIV> <DIV>Saskatchewan, Canada.</DIV> <DIV>306-665-0213</DIV>Fax 652-0505 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>