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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN =
class=013314022-04032005>Just
occurred to me, though, that the great increase in recordings of dynamic =
range
and ability to reproduce sharp transients might have some of the effects =
you're
talking about though. If the transients are tamed a bit in =
the old
recordings, that could make the difference between at least one kind of
brightness or hardness that comes mainly in the sharpness of the =
attack
sound.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=013314022-04032005> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=013314022-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Trent</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT =
face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Lesher, Trent J.
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 04, 2005 4:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'pianotech@ptg.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Modern Tone =
<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Hi
Sarah,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>How
would you put in context the "margin of error" that might apply to your =
theory
below? I don't know enough about these technologies to definitely =
dispute
your theory, but I wonder about some things, mainly whether the =
magnitude and
frequency distribution of the differences in recording technology really =
would
have the effects on perceived voicing that you suggest.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>One
thing that I am thinking is that "hardness" in tone can come from peaks =
in the
3-5kHz range, and those old microphones and tape recorders wouldn't =
necessarily
record that range in misleadingly low proportion. I would be =
surprised if
recordings from the 50's are that deficient below 10kHz, and my gut =
sense is
that any large differences in voicing quality will be evident even in =
recordings
truncated at 10kHz. What little experience I have with older home =
type
tape recorders from the 50's, for instance a Revere model reel-to-reel =
that runs
at 7-1/2 ips, suggests to me that if a piano sounds bright or hard =
in
reality, it will sound bright or hard when recorded on that =
machine. I
have also used inexpensive large diaphragm dynamic type microphones and =
have the
same result. I'd buess that what is most noticeably missing in =
both cases
is more in the 12kHz-plus area, and some of the texture in that range =
can
actually give the sound a more supple quality, so I wouldn't =
automatically say
its absence would create a false impression of mellowness or softer
voicing. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>If
there were some general frequency balance pattern present, like a =
tendency
towards a hump in response around 250Hz or something, I could see how =
you could
get an impression of a mellower, deeper tone. But I have never =
heard of
anything like that being the rule, but maybe something like that was
common.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>I'm
also curious about where you mention large tape heads, because my =
layman's
understanding has been that the width of the gap and the tape speed =
governed
range more than anything, and also that some of those old Ampex machines =
and the
like were, and are, very very good. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>It
would be interesting to hear from some of those who have noticed =
qualities in a
variety of recordings from different periods. I would expect some
instruments (trumpets, flutes, triangles, cymbals, human voices to some =
degree)
to have a very similar spectral balance today as they did in the =
50's. So
in these recordings where the piano sounds less bright or hard, do the =
other
instruments also sound mellower or muted or muffled? And how about =
organ
recordings with lots of high frequencies -- mightn't that be
noticeable?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Curious about all this.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>I too
have been in a constant quest for pianos with timbral range and nuance =
like
Barbara talks about, though I doubt my ear is nearly as discriminating
(yet). Over the years, I found a few, mostly Baldwins or =
M&H's,
in local university practice rooms that became my favorites for awhile. =
When I
first got my 1921 Bush & Lane upright about 7 months ago, it was the =
hardest, most cutting (and yet dead in some way) thing I'd ever heard, =
but that
was just age and neglect. I know I'm not objective about it =
because
it's my first real piano project, but I now almost always play it =
instead
of the 70's-era M&H 50", because there seems to be just an endless =
story
told in its tone and response.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>I
wonder if there's been a call for brighter and brighter pianos since the =
40's to
cut through the mix with a lot of amplified instruments. In any =
case, I
too am glad to hear that I'm not alone in my general preference for =
a wider
timbral range and usually a warmer or more mellow sound and that Barbara =
has
been receiving a lot of appreciation from musicians for her
work.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Best
regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Trent
Lesher</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=252114821-04032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT =
face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Sarah Fox
[mailto:sarah@graphic-fusion.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 04, =
2005 3:19
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Modern Tone
<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joe said: "</FONT><FONT =
face=Arial><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=250450316-03032005>Tone is nothing like what =
the past was,
IMHO." </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN =
class=250450316-03032005>Alan
responded: "</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT =
size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005>I had asked [Ari Asaac] how a person can =
learn to
really hear the subtleties of voicing and what a piano should sound =
like. His
response was 'Listen to piano music recorded in the
1950's.'"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN =
class=250450316-03032005>Later,
Horace commented to Barbara, "<FONT face="Times New Roman" =
size=3>The piano
aside, the real problem with the recording, however was the use of =
Crown
pizeo-electric crystal pickups which were placed on the
stage."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=250450316-03032005>And =
there's
*almost* the point!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN =
class=250450316-03032005>There's a very
good reason why the older pianos didn't sound particularly =
bright. The
*recordings* didn't sound particularly bright. I wish I could =
speak more
authoritatively as a recording engineer. I can only speak from =
general
knowledge, which may or may not be up to snuff in this area. =
Anyhow,
recording equipment from long ago simply wasn't capable of the broad =
frequency
responses available to us today. Particularly at fault were the
microphones, which were abysmal at best. The transducer elements =
were
HUGE and clunky and didn't vibrate too well at high frequencies. =
The
amplifier circuitry was adequate (not great), =
starting around the
1940's. The magnetic recording equipment could pull a lot of =
media
through at any rate desired, but the recording heads were fairly =
massive and
didn't respond too well at higher frequencies. Some of these
shortcomings could be overcome by a competent recording engineer, with =
the
help of filters, but the primary limiting factor was still the =
microphone,
which was usually about the size of a submarine sandwich. I =
doubt
the recording engineers were particularly motivated to reproduce the =
higher
frequencies, because consumer sound reproduction equipment of the day =
was
incapable of reproducing it. Frequency augmented recordings =
would only
be of interest for archival purposes -- recording for reproduction =
equipment
that wouldn't be developed for many decades. I do have some =
experience
with this, and I can assure you that not even academic people are =
interested
in doing this. (Sad.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN =
class=250450316-03032005>Today, we have
some very nice equipment available to us. We are now capable of =
a fairly
flat response curve up to 20kHz and beyond. Some of the research =
equipment I have designed and constructed for sound =
reproduction has been
flat +/- 1 dB from 10 to 6 kHz and flat +/- 5 dB from 6 kHz to 20 =
kHz.
That's pretty good, and I could have done even better with a higher =
budget and
fancier equipment. The B&K condenser microphones I used were =
much
flatter still -- almost magically so.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=250450316-03032005>So =
the
pianos from back in the 1950's may have sounded much darker, as
recorded. However, I wouldn't be too confident that they =
were
really that dark when heard live. Some people may remember =
the
pianos from back then, but how *well* do they remember them? I =
don't
think we really can have any idea what those pianos sounded =
like
from any recordings. Our only hope of understanding these pianos =
is to
reproduce their construction as faithfully as possible and to attempt =
to voice
them the way we think we remember having voiced them back then. =
But
since voicing is a subjective thing, with an end target in mind, =
I think
this is where our ability to reproduce the past will fail =
us.
I seriously, seriously doubt we can have any good appreciation =
for the
evolution of piano sound, beyond the performance ramifications of =
design
changes that have been made throughout the eons.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=250450316-03032005>Peace,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
=
class=250450316-03032005>Sarah </SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></=
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