<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type = content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Oh I really hate when this happens. I usually tell them that they are right, = the piano once restored won't be original. So if they want to keep it in = it's original state, they should put it aside and get another piano to use = every day. I use the car collector analogy:  If you had an antique Rolls = Royce, would you use it every day if you were a taxicab = driver????.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>I use a similar analogy when they insist the piano has huge sentimental value = because it's the piano their granmother learned on. I ask them if they still = drive the car their granfather learned to drive with...</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Sometimes I enjoy being sarcastic...</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>I need a vacation!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Marcel Carey, RPT</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109130700-16112004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Sherbrooke, QC</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT = face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Sarah Fox<BR><B>Sent:</B> November 15, 2004 6:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: How do we tell customers that the = work done on their pianosstinks?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Tom et al.,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This whole motorized hammer filing = discussion had me pondering a question that this thread touches on.  Advice = would be appreciated...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A friend's daughter, a young but = accomplished musician (composer/violinist), has a beautiful 1905 Knabe upright with = considerable wear and tear.  The biggest problems with the piano = are the hammer-like objects (HLOs), which come in all variety of = random shapes and sizes, thanks to the skilled work of some unknown tooner from long = ago, and the dampers, which are original and don't damp all that = great.  The piano has a LOT of sentimental value, and despite its wear, it's quite = a nice instrument.  I'd say it's an obvious candidate for new hammers = and damper felt at the very least.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here's the problem, though:  The = young lady who owns the piano believes that the old/original/butchered hammers = and the old/original damper felt has antique value.  In other words, this = piano is "all original," and as such, it's very valuable.  Replacing = any of the old parts with new parts would lessen its value.  Get the idea?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How do you convince such a person = that her piano needs a good infusion of 21st Century wool?  The fact that the = old-styled Wurzen felt is now available should help, but I just don't think that = will carry the argument.  Have any of you run across this = attitude?  If so, what do you do?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=tcole@cruzio.com href="mailto:tcole@cruzio.com">Thomas = Cole</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 14, = 2004 12:45 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How do we tell = customers that the work done on their pianosstinks?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>I had to tell a lady that her piano was untunable and = that it needed restringing. She had just had it restrung in the previous = year. She said that was what the last technician told her and, after a while, reluctantly, asked me to do the job again. <BR><BR>So, in answer to = your question, tell the truth (but leave out the "crappy" and "useless" adjectives) and be the second technician to show up to give the bad = news. :-)<BR><BR>Tom Cole<BR><BR>gordon stelter wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE = cite=mid20041114133110.46412.qmail@web41405.mail.yahoo.com type="cite"><PRE wrap="">The BEST part in a situation like this = is telling the customer that the former "technician" did useless and crappy work. USUALLY the customer gets mad at YOU instead of them! ( And doesn't believe you, i.e. "That nice old man, xxxxx, worked on MY piano!" ( Smiling, with beaming eyes. ) Does anyone here have suggestions on how to handle telling a customer that the work they just paid for is absolutely worthless garbage ? Thump P.S. I played a small private reception for a celebrity you'd all recognize last night, in a big mansion.......... on a Wurlitzer console. The owner came up to me, beaming, "How do you like it ?" I rejected the first 10 answers that came to mind, bit my lip and politely said "It's OK ". ( I'm not good at lying ) "When was it tuned ?" " Sometime in the last year!" he beamed again. Sheesh! --- Farrell <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E = href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com"><mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>= </A> wrote: </PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Of course! But it's ok = because the originals are those really nice ones with the knuckle integrated into the shank! I'm sure you all have seen this kind of crap workmanship before, but last night I thought I would turn my attention to the backchecks and putting a radius on the hammer tails. The guy also put new backchecks on. Every one at a unique height. Many pushing up adjacent hammers upon key stroke. The hammer tails hit the backcheck at about a 45 degree angle (tails don't check, they clunk!). Then I try to gang sand the tails for a radius. Tails are angled every which way. In, out, rotated. If you took all the loose parts, thew them in a box and shook it up and then looked inside, you would have something that looks pretty close to this action. I am exaggerating only slightly. Arrrrggggg! It would have been less work to try and make the original parts function, rather than trying to make this hodge-podge of parts function. :-( Ain't there a law????? Terry Farrell ----- Original Message ----- From: Avery Todd To: Pianotech Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Front Rail Punching Interference Just wondering, but did "they" also install those new hammers on old shanks/knuckles? :-) Avery At 03:56 PM 11/13/04, you wrote: I think I found part of the problem already. The tooner before me "rebuilt the piano" - you know, the full monty - new strings, hammers, damper felts (yes indeed, hanging way out past the damper heads) and keytops - none of which were installed straight/aligned, etc. I imagine this thing had ivory keytops originally. The new keytops are thick plastic (~2mm), and yup, you guessed it, he didn't plane the keytops down to compensate for the thicker keytops - so now I have keys that are one or two millimeters thicker than original..... Oh well, back to the drawing board ........ er, a, regulating table...... Terry Farrell ----- Original Message ----- From: antares To: Pianotech Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Front Rail Punching Interference Terry, First of all, you need to know the exact key height of your key board. This is the key to your regulation. For instance.... the key height for Steinway model S-B (measured from the key bed to the underside of the key top covering) is 63 mm. For Yamaha's this 64 mm. It is the only way to get your basis straight. After that, we're talking. Andr� Oorebeek On 13-nov-04, at 20:47, Farrell wrote: <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Help!<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>I'm trying to regulate a Baldwin "Monarch" microgrand action. I haven't looked up the piano's age (can't find my Pierce Atlas), but it is from the first half of the 20th Century. I've run into this before. I level keys (1/2" sharp height), regulate blow, let-off, etc., and then go to set aftertouch. When I have the proper aftertouch on the sharps, the adjacent naturals hit the sharp front rail punching before they hit their own front rail punching when depressing the natural.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>That's bad.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>What gives? Have I done something stupid? Have I simply overlooked something?<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Another thing - I have to reduce blow to 1-3/4 inches to provide sufficient key travel (about 3/8 inches - way less than spec) to allow let-off and a tad of aftertouch. I replaced the back rail felt with original thickness (which is the thinnest sold by the supply houses), I am using the thinnest front rail punchings available, and I even have key height a little bit higher than they were (and above spec - more than 2-1/2 inches - I'm quite sure I'm still OK with the fallboard).<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Again, what gives? Action clearly appears all original.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>This is all a lot easier when you rebuild the action, go through the Stanwood and geometry stuff, and have it all correct from the get-go! Because, as in this case, it can't be me, it's gotta be the action! Right? ;-)<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Thanks for anything anyone has to offer.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Terry Farrell<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> friendly greetings from Andr� Oorebeek "where Music is, no harm can be" </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated = href="http://www.yahoo.com">www.yahoo.com</A> _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext = href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives">http://www.ptg.org= /mailman/listinfo/pianotech</A> </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>