<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Hello, Malinda,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>I'll mostly just answer on the breaking point. For all practical computations = on piano scales, the breaking point of the wire (that is given to us by the = wire maker) is lessened 25 % - the new value is then considered breaking = point and we try to get the strings in a zone where they are know to tone well, = admittedly it is around 50 to 70% of this lessened breaking point (hence your = comment). This is called solicitation of the string , don't know if the term is = correct in English.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>The problem we meet when repairing older instruments (before 1930) , that = where build when the wire makers produce strings that where less resistive to = tension (less stiff also) and when we use modern wire on them, is that the = solicitation gets very poor, and the tone suffer - often it gets harsh, a little like = with pianos that lack down bearing, too explosive and not singing enough. We = have the same on modern instruments, for instance STEINWAY O, first plain wire B2 = length 1110 mm , wire1025 mm the solicitation is 35% of the (lessened breaking = point) - while the tension is 491 Newton, not high but = acceptable.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>If on that piano you tune 1 whole step lower the tension will be 383 N the iH = goes up and the solicitation get even poorer at 26 % - I doubt any pianist agree = with the tone then </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>If you tune any piano 1/2 step lower the tone get horrible because of this .</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003> <FONT face=Arial = color=#0000ff size=2>Stephen Paulello push us to mix wire of different stiffness in = order to keep the solicitation consistent toward the break he computed = that the iH stay the same as well as the tension so it may be worth a try . = As the wire he produce is covering a wide range it is possible (BTW I've seen = the wire delivered and it is better looking than Roslau actually, cleaner, more = shiny). </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Back to the dinner table now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Happy New year everyone.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2>Isaac</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=591001518-31122003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff = size=2></FONT> </DIV> <STYLE>A.psl { COLOR: #4e81c4; 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= FONT-SIZE: 7pt" = align=right>Pianotech</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD> <TD class=tiny></TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=2> <TABLE height="100%" cellSpacing=2 width="100%" = align=right border=0> <TBODY> <TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 4px" height=1> <TD class=noro style="PADDING-LEFT: 4px" vAlign=top><B>Isaac OLEG</B><BR><I>accordeur - = reparateur - concert</I> </TD> <TD class=noro style="PADDING-RIGHT: 4px" = vAlign=top align=right>19 rue Jules Ferry<BR>94400 VITRY = sur SEINE </TD></TR> <TR height=1> <TD class=noro style="PADDING-LEFT: 4px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 4px" vAlign=bottom><A class=psl = href="mailto:oleg-i@noos.fr" target=_blank>oleg-i@noos.fr</A> </TD> <TD class=noro style="PADDING-RIGHT: 4px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 4px" vAlign=bottom align=right> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 align=right border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD class=noro noWrap align=right>tel: = <BR>fax: <BR>mobile: </TD> <TD class=noro style="PADDING-LEFT: 4px" = noWrap align=right>033 01 47 18 06 98<BR>33 01 47 = 18 06 90<BR>033 06 60 42 58 77 = </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></T= ABLE></TD> <TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR> <TR> <TD class=tiny colSpan=2> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD align=left><A class=brand = href="http://www.plaxo.com/signature" target=_blank><I>Powered by Plaxo</I></A></TD> <TD align=right><A class=brand = href="http://www.plaxo.com/signature" target=_blank><I>Want a signature like this?</I></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR> <TR> <TD align=middle colSpan=2><A class=brand = href="https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=12885059450&v0=310641&= k0=119568798" target=_blank><I>Add me to your address book...</I></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT = face=Tahoma size=2>-----Message d'origine-----<BR><B>De :</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<B>De la = part de</B> Malinda Dobrins<BR><B>Envoy� :</B> mercredi 31 = d�cembre 2003 18:01<BR><B>� :</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Objet :</B> Re: = Depowering a Piano<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I think I have an answer to your = string breaking problem.  All strings have a point at which they will = break. The engineers have designed strings to be below the breaking point by 30% = or more. Once the energy imparted into the string exceeds this percentage the = string usually breaks.  Since we can't control the increased energy put = in by the pianist, we can control the breaking point percentage.  The = easiest way to do this is to lower the whole piano 100 cents (a half step). = The lower tension thus created willl increase the breaking pooint percentage and = thus absorb the increased energy before the string breakage occurs. Of = course, this can't be done when playing with other instruments unless the players = of the other instruments are willing to transpose to the piano and vice versa.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Recently I was in Atlantic City at = a cascino where a piano player was playing a Yamaha grand piano.  = Playing along with him was a bass fiddler. The piano player was also a = pounder.  During a break I asked him if he had string breakage problems. He said = no because his tuner was tuning the piano a half step lower and thus = solved the problem of string breakage for him.  I assume that the bass = fiddler transposed his playing to fit the piano.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Hope this is helpful.  Lee Dobrins</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">Farrell</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 30, = 2003 4:39 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Depowering a = Piano</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yamaha C3, piano bar in nightclub. = Serviced every two weeks. Always been a good piano in very good condition. = New piano player for last two or three months. The guy is a major pounder. = Lots of broken bass strings (maybe 10 in the last two months - never = before). The key bushings have also gone from excellent condition to slapping = neighboring keys.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The guy I work for requested that I = depower the piano by decreasing blow distance and, correspondingly, key dip. = Seems like a good idea. I had not heard of that approach before. Seems to me = the piano player will notice it and not like it. But that is just my = guess. I reduced dip in the bass by 0.075" - and then blow by about five = times that - to about 1.5 inches. (From middle "C" on down, I added 0.025" = punchings on the front rail every half-octave until I got to the bass where I = added the three punchings to each front key pin - so that there was a = transition to the shorter dip.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have seen recommendations for = increasing let-off to depower a pounder. I have never tried that though. Just = curious whether anyone has any experience with the technique I outlined = above, and how much dip/blow reduction is best to adequately depower the = piano, but not aggravate the player too much. The amount I used what just a = wild guess on my part.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>