<HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: 'C' fork users only (inferior 'A' fork users need not apply)</TI= TLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Dave,  For clairty, would you summarize your temperment pattern, without ch= ecks, after you have set the fork into the piano, and established the octave= with? For example: >From C-3 - up  3 - Mj. contigious thirds to C-4 >From C-4, down a fifth to C#-3 Etc. Also, you you list what checks do you commonly use for setting your temperm= ent? I am asking, because personally I am slow to introduce new checks into = my work, as I am a creature of habit, and hope to learn how others have refi= ned their temperments.      Not too long ago I started using the lovely = and useful check for a forth: that is  comparing the beat rates of the = 3 rd. below the bottom note (Mj 3rd.) to the 6 made to the top note of the 4= th.  As you know, this test reveals a much more 'countable' difference,= compared to 'just' the plain forth. Dan Reed Dallas chapter on 3/5/01 8:42 PM, Dave Nereson at dnereson@dimensional.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message ----- From: thepianoarts <mailto:thepianoarts@home.com>   To: pianotech@ptg.org Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 3:11 PM Subject: 'C' fork users only (inferior 'A' fork users need not apply= ) Just kidding you overly sensitive 'A' fork users! Any "C" fork users care to exchange temperment checks and patter= ns etc?  I have been trying to evolve the 'Up three thirds, down a fifth, up two thirds" etc. temperment taught from the Aubrey Willis course 25 years = ago. Anyone on the list using this pattern? BTW, after 25 years with the fork, I= moved to the Sanderson Accu-fork. It has some advantages. Their beat-rater<= BR> is also a nice tool for checking contigious thirds. Dan Reed Dallas chapter When I first learned to tune, we were taught a C to C temperament that star= ted with a C fork at 523.3 Hz.  The drawback to this one is that it's a= cross the bass/treble break in many spinets and consoles, but the beat rates= are a bit slower than an F-F temperament and might be easier to hear and co= unt for beginners.  It goes thusly: 1.  Tune middle C (C4) to fork (523.3 Hz), beatless. 2.  Tune C3 to middle C.  Tune the A flat below C3 to get a count= able reference beat, then use the 3rd - 10th      &= nbsp;  octave check (3rd slightly slower than the 10th).  You= can also tune E flat 3 to a countable rate and use     =     the 3rd - 6th octave check (both intervals should be= at about the same rate).   3.  Tune E3 to C3 a bit faster than 5 bps (beats per second) -- "= Minneapolis" pronounced slowly, as to a      &= nbsp;      child or non-English speaker. 4.  Tune G#3 to E3 about 7 bps -- "from Chicago to New York"= , pronounced fairly quickly, as a New Yorker      &= nbsp;  might.  Or maybe "I don' wanna gohda bed", a= s pronounced by a recalcitrant tot, knowing s/he's gonna    &= nbsp;    miss Star Trek. 5.  Check G#3 (A flat) to middle C.  Should be about 9 bps. &nbsp= ;(It's real hard for me to call G# to C a Major 3rd     =     when it's really a diminished 4th).  Make corre= ctions to get 3 contiguous Major 3rds at 5:4 ratios, or    &n= bsp;            = about a 5-7-9 bps ratio.  (I never could distinguish smaller than about= a half beat per second, so I'm not       &nbs= p; using decimal parts of a beat per second, such as 5.2 or 7.1 bps).<B= R> 6.  Tune C#3 to G#3 (down a 5th) slightly narrow of pur= e, by 3 beats in 5 seconds.  I know, this is hard to    =          count, but just see th= at the 5th beats slower than once per second, but not so long as two seconds= to             = beat once; then check that C# to E is a beat per second faster than E to G#.=    7.  Tune F3 to middle C (down a 5th).  Check the 4th with = C3.  Should be wide by a beat per second or so.    &nbsp= ;     Check the Major 3rd  Dflat (C#3) to F3. =  Should be about 5.5 bps, or 1/2 bps faster than the C-E third.  &= nbsp;       Check the thirds F to A flat = and A flat to middle C.  The former should be about 1 bps faster than &= nbsp;           &nbsp= ;       the latter, or about 9 bps and 10= bps, respectively. 8.  Tune A3 to E3 (up a 4th), wide by 1 bps.  Check the two third= s F-A and E-G#.  F-A should be about 7.5      =        bps, or 1/2 bps faster than the E-= G#.  Check the 3rd, C-E vs. the 6th, C3 - A.  The 3rd should be ab= out         1 bps slower than the 6t= h (5 bps for the 3rd and 6 bps for the 6th). 9.  Tune D3 to A3 (down a 5th), narrow by 3 beats in 5 sec.  Chec= k D-F and F-A.  D-F should be faster by      &= nbsp;      about 1 bps. or 7 1/2 bps for F-A a= nd 8 1/2 bps for D-F.  Check the minor thirds C#3 to E3 and D to F. &nb= sp;        Should be 8 and 8 1/2 bps= , respectively.   10. Tune F#3 to C#3 (up a 4th), wide by 1 bps.  Check the Major third = D to F# (6 bps) vs. D flat to F (5 1/2       &= nbsp;         bps). 11. Tune B flat 3 (A#) to F3 (up a 4th).  Check F-A vs. F#-A#.  T= he latter should be faster by 1/2        =             &nbs= p;        bps.   Check D f= lat to F vs. D flat to B flat.  The 6th should be faster by 1 bps. &nbs= p;Check the chromatic 6ths         C= -A and C#-A#.  The second one should be faster than the first by 1/2 bp= s. 12. Tune D#3 to A#3 (E flat to B flat), down a 5th, narrow b= y 3 beats in 5 seconds.  Check D#-F# vs. F#-     &n= bsp;          A#.  Th= e latter should be 1 bps slower than the  former.  Check the 4th D= #-G#.  Should beat wide by 1        =  bps. 13. Tune G3 to middle C (down a 4th), wide by 1 bps.  Check E f= lat to G and E flat to middle C.  The 6th     &nbsp= ;           should be= a beat per second faster than the 3rd.   And check the 3rds D-F# = and E flat to G.  Should        &nbs= p;        increase by 1/2 bps going = up chromatically, or 6 and 6 1/2 bps. 14. Tune B3 to F#3 (up a 4th), wide by 1 bps.    G to B shou= ld beat about 8 1/2 bps.  Check D to F# and D     &= nbsp;   to B.  The 6th should be a beat faster than the = 3rd.  Check the 5th E to B.  Should be narrow by 3 beats  &nb= sp;      in 5 seconds.  Admittedly, this = is hard to count with any 5th, so check E-G and G-B.  The minor third &= nbsp;           shoul= d be 1 bps faster than the Major, or about 9 1/2 and 8 1/2 bps, respectively= .  Check chromatic         &nbs= p;       thirds F#-A#, G-B, and A flat to= C -- they should increase  by 1/2 bps each.  Check chromatic sixt= hs C-        A, C#-A#, D-B, and E flat - = C.  They should also increase by 1/2 bps each.          Then go back and check everythin= g:  5ths, 4ths, Major 3rds, Major 6ths, minor 3rds, and make small corr= ections to smooth things out.  None of these beat rates are absolute, a= nd will vary slightly from piano to piano, but I feel it's a good temperamen= t for learning, keeping in mind that it's easier on larger pianos, where you= 're not setting the temperament in the bass/treble break area.  Sincere= ly, David Nereson, RPT, Denver     </BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML>