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<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Hello
Andre,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Very
interesting post indeed, and are actual C3 C7 hammers using Wurzen or =
not
?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Talking about the maintenance of the efficiency of the Yamaha =
hammers, a
common process here is to consider that the back of the hammer harden =
very
little, as it is considered as the springy part of the hammer. On the =
contrary,
the front top zone (from 10 to 11:30) harden much because it is more =
solicited
while playing, and it is responsible for most of the attack
noise.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Then
taking back to original the volume and brilliance of an hardened Yamaha =
hammer
would be needling almost only the front to unpack that hard =
zone, and
also thumping hard on the 9:00 Zone , always front, to open the
tone.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>The
maintenance of this imbalance allow for a longer string contact time =
probably,
and fight the natural tendency of these pianos to sound too brilliant, =
and a tad
metallic, it allows yet for the necessary phase, but certainly not =
for a
lot of power.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Indeed
when needling the back top it is felt soon that the energy is still =
there
and that not a lot of needling is due there.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>I have
seen a Fazioli intoner working with the same idea , one side for energy =
one side
for power, equilibrium of the moments between the 2 sides to obtain
the "phasing". Battery needling on the back only to obtain a =
more fast
rebound .</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Is
not the imbalance induced by this method limiting the =
tonal
range, you said that you believe that the 2 sides of the hammer =
may absorb
the shock, but the front still act differently than the back is not it ? =
.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Is it
what you mean when you say that you believe in symmetry ? or did you =
mean only
the shape of the head.?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>The
method I described there is giving a definite change in tone when =
attaining
certain level of velocity, on the other hand, I feel that the =
possibilities
offered are still a little binary, opposed to a full blooming hammer =
with
springiness on the 2 sides (in a simplified view of the
process).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Best,and thanks for sharing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2>Isaac</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=278350122-02062003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff =
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Isaac OLEG<BR><BR>Entretien et réparation de
pianos.<BR><BR>PianoTech<BR>17 rue de Choisy<BR>94400 VITRY sur
SEINE<BR>FRANCE<BR>tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98<BR>fax : 033 01 47 18 06 =
90<BR>cell:
06 60 42 58 77 </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT =
face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Message d'origine-----<BR><B>De :</B>
pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<B>De la =
part
de</B> antares@euronet.nl<BR><B>Envoyé :</B> lundi 2 juin 2003
22:05<BR><B>À :</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Objet :</B> Re:
hammers<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>On maandag, jun 2, 2003, at 11:03
Europe/Amsterdam, Dave Nereson wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR> What?? The Steinways I've =
seen have
always had an egg-shaped hammer. Aren't we sposeta file trying =
to
remove only one layer of felt, or enough to remove the string =
grooves,
without changing the shape of the whole hammer (unless it's a =
grossly
misshapen mess due to someone else's botch
job)? <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Alright Dave, my
explanation..........<BR><BR>Let me first state the following : I have =
only
limited experience with Steinways built in New York, so the Steinways =
I am
talking about are Hamburg Steinways and they ARE different.<BR>The =
Steinways
built in Hamburg have Renner hammers with Wurzen felt. <BR>Those =
hammers are
very round from the beginning and after first voicing they are filed =
into a
diamond shape, and much more 'diamondy' then you (or I) would have =
imagined
(it is actually frightening at first to see how small a STW becomes =
after
first filing. <BR>This filing process is pretty extreme, but it does =
give the
STW's a certain 'edge' and brilliance you won't get if you leave them
un-diamond-filed.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE> And why would a Bechstein change for =
the
worse with a diamond-shaped =
hammer? <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because certain
instruments ask for a hammer shape that causes more or less =
overtones.<BR>The
Bechstein grand piano does not ask for a hammer which causes extra =
brilliancy
as the instrument itself already has a certain type of high overtone =
sound.
Give it more or too much, and you will make it an ugly yelling monster =
with a
pierced and shrill voice.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR> At Yamaha's Little Red Schoolhouse, =
they
explained that Yamaha purposely shapes their hammers with more of a =
diamond-
than an egg-shape. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sure, but look at the =
older type
Yamaha's please and the hammers you order for those instruments. You =
will
notice that they are round and pear shaped from the beginning.<BR>The =
hammers
for Yamaha's started to change into a more diamondy shape with the
introduction of the CFIII-S and at the same the introduction of the =
Wurzen
felt, mind you.<BR>The Wurzen felt is a much different kind of felt =
than the
felt Yamaha uses on the regular - not hand made - models. It causes a
different tone and asks for a different treatment too. I can tell you =
this
because I had (private) lessons in Wurzen felt voicing in the Yamaha =
CFIII-S
department (within the factory), the Steinway factory in Hamburg and =
the
Bechstein factory in Berlin.<BR>(At one time I met the technical =
director of
Yamaha in Hamburg - Herr Professor Dokter Lüdemann (ja ja) - and I =
proudlu
told him about 'my discovery' of the 'new' Wurzen felt, to which he =
sneered by
telling me that already some time ago he had made the same discovery =
and that
already they had proto-type CFIII-S actions with Wurzen hammers! Later =
that
year, while being in Hamburg, he summoned me to a secret place where =
he showed
me one of those 'Wurzen hammer' actions.<BR>At Yamaha they are now =
changing
there hammers because they have also changed their models. Those =
things go
hand in hand.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE> Are we saying that if the felt is on =
the soft
side (Steinway, especially early ones, and even late ones, compared =
to Asian
hammers), it will compress too much on a hard blow, flattening out =
and
cancelling partials, giving a dull tone, so we should file them =
to more
of a diamond shape? How do you do that without cutting across =
layers
of felt in the hammer? <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There is difference =
in felt
making between felt makers. One of the hammer makers pre-sands its =
hammers and
makes its felt is much and much more dense. This causes a brilliant =
tone from
the beginning but after a year or two the instruments quickly lose =
their
erstwhile beauty because the fibers in the hammers, which were much =
more
massed up together in the first place (and thereby lost a lot of their =
natural
resilience) become kind of hard thudding dead clonkers, to be replaced =
as soon
as possible. Those clonkers are dead lumps if felt, there is no more =
'life' in
them.<BR>I have experience with those clonkers for instance on =
Fazioli's and
Seilers.<BR>Especially one Fazioli concert grand (and initially a nice =
Seiler
too) I remember very well. It was a gift from, I think, a bank to a =
brand new
Theater somewhere here in Holland. The Fazioli became - extremely - =
ugly
within 3 years and was given away!, to be replaced by a brand new =
Steinway D
(although I wish that I could have heard/played one of Ron Overs' =
grands as he
is, according to me, one of the leading piano makers in the =
world).<BR>The
Wurzen felt is not sanded from the beginning and the highly resilient =
felt
layers stay intact, causing the same very lively tone that the early =
Steinways
had in earlier days.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE> And if the felt is dense (Asian and =
others)
and already diamond-shaped (Yamaha and other Asian pianos), then it =
should
have a richer tone because it does not flatten out and cancel
partials? But you said YAM's change for the worse =
with a
diamond shape. What do you mean, "change"? =
They
already have the diamond shape....???<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>YAM's =
change for the
worse if you re-shape their hammers as if they are modern (Hamburg) =
STW's.
Why? because it alters the tone in the wrong way. The tone becomes
overstrained and hyper, with the emphasis on the higher partials which =
the
Yamaha does not need as they are already pretty brilliant. If we take =
the
development of Yamaha's into consideration we may notice that the =
early
Yamaha's were shrill and tinkly instruments. They clearly were =
accepted by the
Japanese consumers (at the time) but Yamaha had to adapt to a more =
'Western
taste' of listening, which, over the years, resulted in a neutral kind =
of
Steinway clone, but without the 'boom' and richness of said STW. (they =
are
built completely different in the end and have gone their own =
way)<BR>In my
perception of, and experience with, piano sounds, the shape of a =
hammer has to
adapt to the characteristics of a soundboard. The soundboard (and the
strings), asks for a certain 'commotion', by in fact a very specific =
kind of
hammer strike, that will cause it to sound in such a way that we as =
listeners
will like and thus approve of. A Bechstein with a sharp protruding =
diamond
shape hammers will definitely sound different than with a more rounded =
off,
egg shaped, hammer. A STW with a Bechstein hammer will sound a little =
dull,
without the specific STW brilliance and color gradation we expect from =
it. A
Bösendorfer with a STW hammer will 'speak too loud' and thereby lose =
its
romantic harmonics.<BR>A Fazioli would definitely be a more =
interesting
instrument, musically speaking, with Wurzen hammers. One of the much =
heard
complaints about Fazioli's is that they sound so very loud and too =
uniform,
without any change of 'color', which makes especially Bechsteins and
Bösendorfers so attractive and magically divers.<BR>Instead, the =
Fazioli maker
wishes for his instruments to SOUND and SOUND, as it were to prove =
that a
Fazioli has unlimited power, just like, or even more, than a =
Steinway.<BR>A
Yamaha CFIII-S basically does not give that same avalanche of loudness =
although they may 'thunder' (the legendary S. Richter for instance on =
a unique
instrument built for him only. They have become more subtle because =
they have,
just like the others, a long history of piano making behind them and =
an
adapted taste. That's exactly why a YAM CFIII-S 'can be' magnificent,
masterly, and truly satisfying because the instrument is balanced and =
rightly
developed. They brought together the right materials and they have =
learned
through experience how to treat those materials.<BR>I am more than =
convinced
that Fazioli eventually will find its true course. I am definitely not =
saying
that Fazioli is a mediocre instrument, on the contrary! They have, I =
think, a
great deal of possibilities and technically speaking they are superb. =
It is
just a matter of more time.<BR><BR>Some Asian piano makers (I am not =
talking
about Yamaha and Kawai) also have not found their true course. The =
Koreans are
rapidly developing ways to flood the World with even more low cost =
pianos. I
was there in the Samick factories in Incheon and Djakarta and I was =
amazed by
the speed and the quantities of instruments leaving the factory(great =
guitars
too). They basically have good material (Wurzen hammers from Renner,
soundboards from Italy, Keyboards from Germany), but they still have =
to find a
stable course. Maybe Bechstein (50% take over) will be of great =
influence? The
Chinese make all the stuff in the World. They make literally =
everything and
they make it in a very inexpensive way. I have seen, and worked on, =
several
Chinese 'Perzina' uprights.<BR>They amazed me by their already =
reasonable
quality but they still have a long time to go, unless they can buy the =
right
people for a lot of dollares to make very fast competitive
changes.<BR><BR>Anyway....my little story turned out a little longer =
than
expected.<BR>Hopefully it made any sense at =
all?<BR><BR>Antares,<BR>The
Netherlands<BR><BR>see my website at :
www.concertpianoservice.nl<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>