<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Matthew,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">You said: "</FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">It sounds more like from your e-mail that you = were comparing a dehumidifier/humidistat with having no system at = all."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Correct, I = was.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">We were comparing the dehumidifier/humidistat to the WHOLE system.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Ok, So will I.  I = stand firm.  There is NO Harm you can do by installing what we call a half-system.  It appears that (I hope) we are in a battle of semantics.  I agree that a full system is better.  No = question, excepting locations where RH never falls below 42%.  I also = continue to assert that you cannot do DAMAGE by installing a half system.  You = are not doing ALL THE GOOD you can do with a full system, but you are not CAUSING damage by leaving off the humidifier.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>0% to 42% was for = arguments sake BTW, and yes, I am fully aware the difference.  I live in a region where = the RH fluctuates rather dramatically.  Probably from the low teens to = near or at 100% (of course I don't really know as I am rather skeptical of any = devices ability to measure RH accurately at the extremes).  I service many = pianos with half-systems and they are incredibly stable.  Will parts = become wobbly, will cracks form, etc. Yup.  Will this also happen in a = piano with a full system in place?  Yup.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>My point is simply that = we CAUSE NO DAMAGE by installing a half-system, anywhere in the world.  Could = we improve things further by installing a full-system in many parts of the = world, absolutely.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Now you have = 66.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>William R. = Monroe<BR>Madison, WI<BR>Assoc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=pianotech88@yahoo.com = href="mailto:pianotech88@yahoo.com">Matthew Todd</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 19, = 2004 6:39 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Dampp-Chaser sold = on the internet (cheap)!</DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV>In truth, there is GREAT harm in installing only the dehumidifier/humidistat.  Do you even know the extreme difference = between 0% to 42% RH?  There is a big gap there buddy, and you will have trouble.  Your tunings will even fail.  A constant = percentage is needed for tunings to hold.  Otherwise, wood cracks, parts = wobble, etc (yes, even below 42%).</DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>It sounds more like from your e-mail that you were comparing a dehumidifier/humidistat with having no system at all.  We were = comparing the dehumidifier/humidistat to the WHOLE system.</DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your pesos,</DIV> <DIV>Matthew<BR><BR><B><I>"William R. Monroe" <A440WRMPiano@tm.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px = solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Matthew,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>In truth, There = is no harm in installing only the dehumidifier/humidistat, anywhere = in the world.  With this set-up, the worst case scenario is that we = are "preventing" the humidity from ever rising above "42%."  A huge = improvement, in my book, over leaving everything to the changing winds.  Perhaps, even in wet climes, the humidifier might offer = more control, but I think it is reasonable to see the humidifier as = "added benefit" over having dehumidifier only.  You will not harm = anything by not allowing the piano to go over 42% RH.  With dehumidifier = only, anywhere in the world, the RH in the piano's environment is free to fluctuate between 0%, and 42%, as opposed to between 0% and 100% = without any climate control.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>My 33 = pesos,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>William R. = Monroe<BR>Madison, WI<BR>Assoc.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=pianotech88@yahoo.com = href="mailto:pianotech88@yahoo.com">Matthew Todd</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 19, = 2004 4:41 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Dampp-Chaser = sold on the internet (cheap)!</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>I see your guys point on this.  Is there harm in = installing the whole system in Florida anyhow?  I guess you don't need to = install the whole system if you know for sure that your clients plan to = live in Florida the rest of their lives.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Matthew<BR><BR><B><I>Avery Todd <<A href="mailto:avery@ev1.net">avery@ev1.net</A>></I></B> = wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff = 2px solid">At 10:36 AM 9/19/04, you wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Piano's environment???  You mean to say that your clients pianos = never drop below 42% relative humidity?  Do your clients keep = their pianos on their front porch?  If not, then a complete Dampp-Chaser is necessary.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not in a climate = like Houston. OR Florida! :-) <BR><BR>Avery <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Matthew<BR><BR><B><I>Farrell <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com></I></B> wrote:<BR> <DL> <DD><FONT face=arial size=2>Unless of course relative = humidity levels in the piano's environment never drop below 40% RH. = Under such conditions, why on earth would you install a = humidifier? Such are the conditions here in central Florida. My car is = properly outfitted - even though I don't put snow tires on it in the = winter - right?<BR></FONT> <DD><BR>  <DD><FONT face=arial size=2>Terry Farrell<BR></FONT> <DL> <DD>----- Original Message ----- <BR> <DD>From:</B> <A = href="mailto:pianotech88@yahoo.com">Matthew Todd</A> <BR> <DD>To:</B> <A = href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> <BR> <DD>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 18, 2004 11:34 PM<BR> <DD>Subject:</B> Re: Dampp-Chaser sold on the internet (cheap)!<BR><BR> <DD>Basic upright system?  I hope we all realize the importance of the COMPLETE Dampp-Chaser system.  = Otherwise it cannot do it's job properly.<BR> <DD><BR>  <DD>By the way, didn't Dampp-Chaser raise it's prices currently??<BR> <DD><BR>  <DD>Matthew<BR><BR> <DD>Ryan Sowers <<A = href="mailto:pianorye@yahoo.com">pianorye@yahoo.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR> <DL> <DD>Tell the client that it really isn't any great = deal.<BR> <DD><BR>  <DD> I buy Dampp-chaser 3 packs from Schaff for = $178.50. Divided by three that's about $60 per piano. Double the = price for your retail mark-up and that's $120. I charge a half = hour labor to put in a basic upright system (50 watt rod + humidistat). <BR> <DD><BR>  <DD>However, now that I am sold on the value of the back = covers I'll have to add an appropriate amount to the = installation fee. <BR><BR> <DD>Clyde Allen <tunepiano1@yahoo.com></I></B> = wrote:<BR> <DL> <DD>I recently received a call from a prospective = customer<BR> <DD>who claimed he could buy a Dampp-Chaser humidistat = for<BR> <DD>$77 and a dehumidifying rod for $48 on the = internet. A<BR> <DD>complete systen for a vertical piano is $270 and = for a<BR> <DD>grand is $326. He sent me the link. When I = followed<BR> <DD>the link and clicked on item #14 I found he = was<BR> <DD>telling the truth. He realizes that to install = it<BR> <DD>himself will void the warranty. Nevertheless he = wants<BR> <DD>to compare my price for buying the parts (and<BR> <DD>installing) with the price he can get the parts = for<BR> <DD>online and have me install. My first reaction = which I<BR> <DD>did not voice is that if he buys the parts I will = not<BR> <DD>touch it. What do you think? How would you handle = this<BR> <DD>situation?<BR><BR> <DD><A = href="http://www.vandaking.com/us-shop/index.html" = eudora="autourl">http://www.vandaking.com/us-shop/index.html</A><BR><BR= > <DD>Piano Showcase<BR> <DD>Order Toll Free 1-800-791-7144<BR><BR> <DD>Dampp Chaser� Humidistat for = Dehumidifier<BR><BR> <DD>Automatic Humidistat for Uprights & Grands - $77.00<BR><BR> <DD>This is a Genuine Dampp-Chaser� Humidistat. Just = plug<BR> <DD>your Dampp Chaser dehumidifier into the humidistat = and<BR> <DD>it will automatically turn it on and off for = you.<BR> <DD>It's a great asset for every size of dehumidifier = rod,<BR> <DD>however, the manufacturer requires that it must = be<BR> <DD>used with all 48" dehumidifiers greater than 15 watts.<BR><BR> <DD>S-H2 for Uprights <BR><BR> <DD>S-GH-2V for Grands supplied with Velcro.<BR> = <DD>=================<BR><BR> <DD>LIMITS OF LIABILITY:<BR> <DD>You are buying a Dampp-Chaser product. <BR><BR> <DD>All Dampp Chaser products must be installed by = a<BR> <DD>qualified piano technician. If the humidistat = is<BR> <DD>installed by someone other than a qualified = piano<BR> <DD>technician, the warranty is void, and the seller = and<BR> <DD>manufacturer assume no responsibility for damage = that<BR> <DD>may occur to your piano as a a result of = improper<BR> <DD>installation of the Humidistat, or failure to<BR> <DD>understand and make neces! ! ! sary adjustments = and perform<BR> <DD>necessary maintenance.<BR><BR> <DD>By purchasing this Humdistat, it is understood = that<BR> <DD>the above statement is agreed to, and the buyer = agrees<BR> <DD>not to hold Dampp-Chaser Electronics Corporation = or<BR> <DD>Piano Showcase liable for any damage to your piano = if<BR> <DD>it is not installed as directed.<BR><BR> <DD>Base price : U.S.$ 77.00<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> = <DD>__________________________________________________<BR> <DD>Do You Yahoo!?<BR> <DD>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam = protection around <BR> <DD><A href="http://mail.yahoo.com/" eudora="autourl">http://mail.yahoo.com</A> <BR> = <DD>_______________________________________________<BR> <DD>pianotech list info: <A href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" = = eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</A><BR><= BR></DD></DL><BR><BR> <DD>Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter<BR> <DD>Pianova Piano Service<BR> <DD>Olympia, WA <BR><BR><BR> <DD>Do you Yahoo!?<BR> <DD><A = href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/security/*http://promotio= ns.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.html">Yahoo! Mail</A> - You care about security. So do we.<BR><BR></DD></DL><BR> <DD>Do you Yahoo!?<BR> <DD><A href="http://vote.yahoo.com/">vote.yahoo.com</A> = - Register online to vote today! <BR><BR></DD></DL></DD></DL><BR>Do = you Yahoo!?<BR><A = href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/50x/*http://promotions.ya= hoo.com/new_mail/static/efficiency.html">Yahoo! Mail</A> - 50x more storage than other providers! </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR SIZE=1> Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A = href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/10/*http://promotions.yah= oo.com/new_mail/static/efficiency.html">New and Improved Yahoo! Mail</A> - Send 10MB = messages!</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR SIZE=1> Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A href="http://vote.yahoo.com">vote.yahoo.com</A> = - Register online to vote today!</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>