<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> I keep hearing a sort of "qualifying" to this term Perfect pitch.. folks more or less that  perfect perfect pitch doesnt really exist.. and I of course have to aggree, if for no other reason then such perfectness simply doesnt correspond to anything in the real world. You would run into all kinds of problems right off the bat in the attempt to claim that such a thing could exist... for example, what temperament is then the "perfect" one.  Grin.. I'll bet this'd stir the HT/ ET discussion a bit. Who knows... the perfect perfect pitch might even be "just" oriented. When I hear references to "this guy can hear the difference between a441 and a442" I think ok... but what so ?? What about the rest of the notes then ? As far as I know, no one has really been able to come close (close enough to be acceptable by decerning ears musically)  to being able to determine an ET tuning (no matter what tool for measuring has been used) by ear alone. Further I know of no attempt to discover if folks who have some ability which is very close to perfect perfect pitch have any particular orientation to this ability.. ie just intervals, et intervals or whathaveyou.  This last might be really interesting to find out. Ah...well... back to the real world... I'm off then. "See" you all in a few days.   Tvak@AOL.COM wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>In a message dated 9/5/00 11:11:08 AM, tito@PhilBondi.com writes: << As I get older, I am recognizing that I do not identify A=440 as easily as I once did >> Rook, my nearly "pefect pitch" seems exactly the same as yours in many respects including my accuracy deteriorating slightly in the last 5 years or so.  (I am 48.) <<a customer's piano that I have said "sounds pretty close" to be as much as 20 cents flat..that to me is not 'pretty close'..but if someone were to sit down on the same piano before I knew how flat it was and was to play chords, notes, or a song, I could identify the chords, the notes, or the key the song was in..I would get them all right..so that's perfect?>> This also mirrors my own experiences.  Interestingly, I have recordings of the Beethoven Symphonies with Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic. I guess they must tune significantly sharp.  At the beginning of each symphony, I know, of course, what key this symphony is written in, and I perceive them at the pitch they are written, but somewhere during the developement section, it modulates through the circle of fifths, or perhaps it goes through some chromatic modulation of sorts, and I start to hear the piece a half step high.  My ear QUANTIZES the pitch up or down to the apparently nearest half step. <<yes I believe there are varying degrees of perfectness with this 'gift' that some of us have>> I agree; I do not claim to have perfect pitch.  It's pretty close...but no cigar.  I attribute this to my tuning experience.  I think perfect pitch does have something to with pitch memory, and because I am adjusting the pitch on so many pianos, my ear no longer perceives an 'A' as a finite, quantified thing.  (...I mean, "thingee") My ear no longer has a "role model" of what an 'A' is.  I mean where does 'G#' end and 'A' begin?  It was never an issue when I was younger, making my living as a pianist.  (Back in the old days when an 'A' was an 'A'!) Tom S. Chicago Area</blockquote> -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. Bergen, Norway  </html>