<html> My problem was that the organ is tuned somewhere around 430. They want to play the organ with the piano for a performance. Themn they want to use the piano in accompaniment with hand bells at 440. Then back with the organ, then back with the hand bells. I gave up that gig. Then organ people tell them that they would have to make considerable alterations in pipe lengths to alter "voicing".  I came in a few days after one of their 'tuning' and was appalled, no amount of temperature or humidity fluctuation could account for those dreadful intervals.  I pointed it out to their organist, but what do I know, I'm just a piano tuner. I was present in another church when the tuning was being done. One guy on the console, the other guy with a Conn pitch generator in the pipe chamber. No brain, no pain; I guess. I mentioned about an SAT, RCT (all there was at the time) and received a blank stare. Hearing protection would be my first priority in this situation. I attempted to help an another organist by  'touching-up' the mix (little did I know what that was). After finding it and tending to those little whistles I would never do it again without hearing protection. I though piano tuners were nuts, these guys are really out there... Regards, Jon Page At 05:13 PM 05/13/2001 -0500, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite cite>Hi Joe,             I did not intend to pick, as I know it's a perenial problem with churches.  Communication is key, with the music people, pipe organ tech, and piano tech.  Education has to go along with it.  other wise you end up with the he said, she said game. A lose, lose, scenerio. I have been in the middle of those kinds of things, and also part of the problem.  A little older and some what wiser.  I insist on having the 3 parties meet. So solutions can be found.  Many of the pipe organ techs will also lay down a different bearing  (temperament)  than our standard  ET. Flue Work for instance has a very strong fundamental and less harmonic development than the principal chorus. And both are quite different than piano strings, in any given register. Team work is the answer if it can be fostered.   Bare in mind, that much of the beauty of a pipe organ, is it's space, and out of tuneness.  Add reverb time into the mix, and the game gets thicker. The big 16ft pipes are usually a long way away from the piano. For me, get rid of the pianos in churches, and let us make a Joyful noise unto the Lord.  With a real pipe organ.  <G> Just some thoughts on the subject. Regards roger At 02:24 PM 5/13/01 -0700, you wrote: >Roger, >Since you bi-directed this posting at me, I'll respond. >I was not "after" the Organ Tech!, but his lack of analysis of this >particular church situation. If he had ascertained the ambient temp/hum that >the church is "normally" at and achieved that before the final tuning of the >organ, I think that the organ would have been a little closer to A=440. Part >of the equation hasn't been discussed. Where Jeannie is, is right on the >ocean. I suspect that while the organ tech was installing, etc.  the hall >was kept at a comfortable level for his benefit. Once he finished, the >church went back to it's normal habit of not heating or cooling. IMHO the >organ tech should have a long conversation with the powers that be, at the >church, and emphasize the importance of constant temp/Humid conditions. >There lies the problem. My original comment was too short.(for that I >apologize) The best thing is IMHO to get the organ tech to retune the whole >enchilada while the church is in it's normal temp/humid mode. Then, at least >Jeannie won't have to tune the piano 12-15cents sharp and possibly more. If >the organ "floats" a little sharp and a little flat, with the average at >A=440, then it would be acceptable. >Regards, >Joe Garrett >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jolly roger" <baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca> >To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 11:00 AM >Subject: Re: Sharp organ</blockquote></html>