<HTML>In a message dated 1/21/2002 10:35:32 PM Pacific Stand= ard Time, pianobuilders@olynet.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Re: Baldwin Accu-Just H= itch Pins--General Information Date:1/21/2002 10:35:32 PM Pacific Standard Time From:<A HREF="mailto:pianobuilders@olynet.com">pianobuilders@olynet.com</A= > Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">----- Original Message ----- <B= R> From: <A HREF="mailto:Erwinspiano@AOL.COM">Erwinspiano@AOL.COM</A> = To: <A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent: January 21, 2002 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Baldwin Accu-Just Hitch Pins--General Information In a message dated 1/21/2002 10:40:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, <A HREF="m= ailto:pianobuilders@olynet.com">pianobuilders@olynet.com</A> writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Baldwin Accu-Just Hitch= Pins--General Information Date:1/21/2002 10:40:39 AM Pacific Standard Time From:<A HREF="mailto:pianobuilders@olynet.com">pianobuilders@olynet.com</A= > Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet      Del </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>    I think possibl= y you were confused about the order of subjects under discusion over the wee= kend. They did get convoluted and went from one thing to another. The Baldwi= n board specs were hashed out some and then it went on to the topic of setti= ng crown in new boards, so you may not have picked up on the sequential disc= ussions of this thread. That's why your post struck me the way it did. I did= n't mean to necessarily relate those downbearing numbers to the baldwin syst= em but to a fairly typical 60ft. crowned board with rib dimensions the same = or similar to what ever the original heights were. This type of board is pre= tty common in shops across the country (as you know) and is probably where t= hose asking the question will start at. Hence my reply. Perhaps my post was = confusing.       The prestressing method itself was what I wan= ted to make a point of and as you say the bearing values will change given a= host of different factors. Although this method is old perhaps there other = methods as well that I would certainly enjoy hearing discussed.      I apologize for bristling a bit. The rest of you po= st was well taken and clear enough.             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p;     Best--Dale Erwin <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style= ="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PAD= DING-LEFT: 5px"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px so= lid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Dale, Carl, et al,<FO= NT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY= ="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> . Mostly, how much loading any= specific soundboard must have is a function of how massive and how stiff th= e soundboard assembly is. This is not a universal constant. Daleā€™s s= tring deflection numbers would not work[at] all for one of our boards. As to= whether they would work for one of Baldwinā€™s current boardsā€= ”I cant say. With the Accu-Just system Baldwin has used a fairly light cro= wn radiusā€” </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></= BLOCKQUOTE> Del--Just so it doesn't app= ear that you're dismissing my downbearing deflection no. derived from the ex= perience myself and others out of hand, let me Re- <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE styl= e="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PA= DDING-LEFT: 5px"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px s= olid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">state that the= se no.s are real do work well in NON--REDESIGNED soundboards, which I must p= oint out most of us are doing. I think I was fairly specific as to the type = of replacement board application that these numbers do commonly work in. </F= ONT> </BLOCKQUOTE> No, I'm not dismissing them = at all. And I'm certainly not dismissing your experience. I thought I was be= ing pretty specific when I said your downbearing numbers wouldn't work for o= ur soundboards. And they may not work for Baldwin boards--which is what the = original discussion was about if I recall correctly. Anyway, my apology if I= wasn't specific enough--I'm just trying to point out that these numbers are= specific to the type and design of the boards you put in. They may or may n= ot work well for the boards someone else puts in using some (perhaps only sl= ightly) different procedure. Or some different combination of materials. </F= ONT> There are lots of variables = that go into setting up a soundboard system, including determining the amoun= t of string loading on the soundboard. The numbers you and others are quotin= g are numbers that work well for you. You've done a lot of boards and you're= comfortable with them. But they are not universal numbers for all soundboar= ds and for all pianos though they typically get used that way. When the ques= tion is asked, "How much downbearing should there be on a new soundboard?" I= 'm not sure we can answer without either asking or giving a bit more informa= tion, as you're doing below:= <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE styl= e="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PA= DDING-LEFT: 5px">   These values of downbearing  work well for me on 60ft. rib crown= ed boards(treble radius are tighter) but with some modification of the syste= m of prestressing, I suggest the procedure could be applied to many if not m= ost soundboard systems that exhibit some stiffness as they're being test loa= ded. Obviously totally flacid or under crowned systems woulf require a diffe= rent approach.   Perhaps you'd like to share what values you consider workable in a no= n-redesigned rib crowned soundboard system ? Or in your design system for th= at matter. </BLOCKQUOTE> I do so in classes I give on= the subject. But without being able to illustrate and discuss the design of= the soundboard the numbers wouldn't mean much. Let's just say that they hav= e somewhat more flex in them than you're probably used to and they have some= what more crown, hence the downbearing settings are quite a bit higher than = you would use. Del </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>