<html> Greetings Issac,             &nbs= p;            I have just completed some experiments on S & S Model O, all new action parts, restrung well polished temination bars, bridges and board in excellent condition, new bridge pins. Piano  was with in 1.5c of pitch through out after 3 tunings. The partial spectrum was within15% on each string of the unison, checked by PAZ.   Objective to tune 12 notes to obtain stable full bloom on every string ( 0.02c). Tune the first 6 note working left to right, the second 6 notes working right to left.   The first string was tuned purely to RCT, the second and third aurally, on average I ended up about 0.4c sharp per string, I corrected each string for full bloom, Playing the three strings together the indication showed a full cent sharp. but the unison sounded very tight.   An interesting anomily, it appeared the second set of unisons, working right to left, seemed to be easier to set all three strings.  This could be something to do with bridge stiffness, due to the notching of the bridge. ( very little mass to the left of the left hand string.)   I ended up slightly sharp with each string in both directions. Is this a coupling effect, or is it due to the fact that we take the string sharp, then drop for no beat and the window of acceptable error is a little wider than we think,  we have cretainly trained ourselves to try and not pass the cross over point.    I never thought that I would have the patience to spend close to 8hrs on one octave. At the end of it just more confusion. Regards Roger At 02:17 PM 15/11/98 +0100, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite cite>Hello everyone, When i was looking for information on tuning perception, I've found this study on the tuning of trichords in the piano. I send it to your interest, as I remeber a thread about it. I once had tried to analyse the fresh tuning of a grand D S&S by one of our best tuners here in Paris, and I've found that on any triplet checked (with RCT), 2 of the cords were in tune with no more than 0.1 or 0.15 cts diff at the 2nd or 4th partial level, BUT a 3rd corde was "out" by 0.25 to 0.8 cts, not always the same cord but always one. When hearing the tuner at work I clearly have the feeling he plays to the 2nd or 4th partial resonnance when tuning unissons (no strip miuting by there). It was in a large concert hall with a good soun return. I feel the tuner use the partial modulation to obtain a "projection " of the sond in the place. I may admit I have tried to do that and have found difficult to 3HEAR" the sond in front of the piano as if I where 5 meters farther. I will assit on a cooloque on the perception of the tuning of the pianos in a fe you. By the way Del, ther will be something on the pros and cons about old or new wood for the resatauration of ancient pianos. Will forward it too if avaible. Following is the file (english version) Best regards to all of you . Isaac OLEG Tuner/ technician. Paris - France Serveur © IRCAM - CENTRE GEORGES-POMPIDOU 1996, 1997, 1998. Tous droits réservés pour tous pays. All rights reserved. <div align="center"> <h1>Tuning of Trichords in the Piano</h1> </h1></div> Eric Marandas, René Caussé (IRCAM), Vincent Gibiat (LOA/ESPCI, UP7 URA CNRS) ISMA 95, Dourdan 1995 <hr> (<a href="index.htm">Version Française</a>) <h3>Abstract</h3> Are the two or three strings struck by the same hammer in a piano tuned in perfect unison ? We used an experimental procedure for precise frequency measurements of a single vibrating string (the others being damped), using zero-crossings of the sound pressure signal (filtering out all but the fundamental). We determined the "mistuning" between the three strings of unison groups, from F1 to C5. The average "mistuning" was approximately 0.5 cents. This value is three times lower than the frequency resolution of the ear given by works on psychoacoustics. <div align="center"> La version électronique de ce texte n'est disponible dans son intégralité qu'à partir des postes de consultation de l'Ircam, pour des raisons de copyright. Les rapports de recherche et les revues musicales de l'Ircam (ainsi que des disques, des brochures d'information...) peuvent être commandés auprès du <a href="mailto:comm@ircam.fr">service de Communication</a> de l'Ircam (tél: 01 44 78 48 98). The full online version of this text is available only from within IRCAM, for copyright reasons. The Technical Reports, all the IRCAM periodicals as well as other publications (recordings, brochures, etc.) can be ordered from the IRCAM <a href="mailto:comm@ircam.fr">PR services</a> (phone: +33 (0) 1 44 78 48 98). </div> ____________________________ <a href="/index-e.htm">Server</a> © IRCAM-CGP, 1996, 1997, 1998 - file updated on 10/14/1998 at 18h13m12s. To write: <a href="/messages/mail.htm">MESSAGE</a> </blockquote> <div>Roger Jolly</div> <div>Baldwin Yamaha Piano Centre</div> <div>Saskatoon and Regina</div> <div>Saskatchewan, Canada.</div> <div>306-665-0213</div> Fax 652-0505 </html>