<DIV>IMHO 5-7 swings in the middle of the piano is medium friction. 8-10 is low friction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its seems hard to get across that low friction is not *loose pinning*. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a previous poster commented cloth density makes a big difference in bushing firmness. I have moved away from "reaming" bushings to get correct fit. I like sizing (i.e.alcohol & H2O) burnishing, (using broaches *without* roughened surfaces which remove felt. the pressure and friction generates plenty of heat that irons and compresses the bushing) and lubrication (I cant quite make up my mind between protek and ballistol, although I'm interested in how RicB uses the teflon powder).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you treat bushings this way you can get away with more swings and still have stable bushings with no wobble. <BR><BR><B><I>David's Email <ilvey@sbcglobal.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you are talking about high friction, yeah of course that's a problem, 5 - 7 swings is not high friction.   The main thing you and Sara are missing is the wobble or lack of focus of the hammer as it hits the string in loose pinning.   The difference in tone, IMHO, isn't hammer staying on the string longer and somehow losing the higher partials but the focus of power...I can hear the difference and like the sound.   Sustain is improved...I've repinned several actions and the difference is noticeable.   I the same vein and I've mentioned this before...I've repinned a number of Renner actions here in California that had loose pinning in the birdseye not the bushing...anyone else noticed this? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>David I.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=pianorye@yahoo.com href="mailto:pianorye@yahoo.com">Ryan Sowers</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:29 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> friction and dynamics (was repinning)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>I don't buy it Richard, because as a player I don't have time once I begin playing a note to think about sensitivity. What produces a certain velocity in my fingers is the mental <STRONG><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff80">intension</FONT></STRONG> I have the microsecond <G> before I play the note. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The biggest factor to me in dynamics is a nice "accelleration curve" from somewhat mellow and ppp to nasty and fff! If the voicing and regulation give a nice mp when I playing with moderate force, a soothing pp when I let up a bit, and a powerful forte when I lean into it a bit I have a wonderful time playing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me extra friction just makes me work harder. Its a distraction. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Ryan Sowers wrote:<BR><BR>> I just can't understand why lower friction and greater upweight would <BR>> decrease the control over the dynamics? If the piano is well-voiced <BR>> you will have plenty of control over the dynamics.<BR><BR>Because things are happening faster. You use less time to accomplish <BR>the same mechanical work (hammer to string contact efficiency asside, as <BR>its a seperate issue)<BR><BR>You put 40 grams of force from the finger into the string... and you get <BR>more raw velocity out of an action with less friction then another with <BR>more. Lets use your draconian example... 20 swings on the one hand vs 3 <BR>on the other.<BR><BR>It should be clear that for any given output velocity/force...etc... you <BR>will have to put in more effort in the latter then the former. The flip <BR>side of that is that you have less time in the former to do w! hatever you <BR>are attempting to do. The window between max output and min has been <BR>made smaller. On the one hand your fingers are required to be a bit <BR>stronger... on the other they are required to be able to exert greater <BR>sensitivty to control the increased response.<BR><BR>Its kinda like hitting a baseball.... a slow pitch is easy to get your <BR>bat on... but a fast ball... On the other hand.... once you get your bat <BR>on the ball it will generally fly farther..... which direction it flys <BR>is another matter entirely.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR>RicB<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>><BR>> */Nichols <NICHO@ZIANET.COM>/* wrote:<BR>><BR>> The super low friction touch is going to get liked because the<BR>> upweight<BR>> feels so much more like the practice digital in the dorm that<BR>> they've been<BR>> listening to through headphones.( So what if the dynamic range is<BR>> about the<BR>> same.) Those keys really "pop"!<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Ryan Sowe! rs, RPT Puget Sound Chapter<BR>> Pianova Piano Service<BR>> Olympia, WA<BR>><BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now <BR>> <HTTP: evt="26640/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush" us.rd.yahoo.com>. <BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter<BR>Pianova Piano Service<BR>Olympia, WA <P> <HR SIZE=1> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! <A href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=26640/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush">Enter now</A>.</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter<br>Pianova Piano Service<br>Olympia, WA<p> <hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/aac/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/ease.html">Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete</a> - You start. We finish.