<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" = http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>Dear Colleagues,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>Just to say that I tuned a few pianos , verticals and grand's, with the Bill = Bremmer method of equal tempered octaves. Thanks to Mr Bremmer to put his method = on the Web </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>I liked a lot the kind of tone it allows, I've find it amazing how the = equality between twelve's and double octave is precise and easy to hear, and I = was surprised to see how accurate was the progression with this very basic = and simple control. (I was thinking that only thirds and tenths progression = can allow very precise tuning, and used the fifths mostly for the color = before that)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff = face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>For me, it lend to a unison tone which is easy to obtain and blend well with = the tone of the octaves.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>(Not so) Many old tuners in France use this kind of tuning approach. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>Those trained in Cordier too, but sound is more harsh in = CORDIER tuning BMO)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>The sound obtained with this high strech is not indeed as if we where to = stretch a lot beginning with a "normal" tuning.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>The opening of the octaves, if listened between 1 string low and 1 string = high, looks as an audible beat, but when the same is done with unisons, the = high partials blend absolutely in a very lively and colored sound.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>I just can't explain why these kind of octave give me an unisons quality = different from what I obtain usually. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>As  the correct balance  (between 12ths, double - & octave ) = is a very well focused point I was able to find the good stretch even while = the low unison was sounding (with pedal or with only 1 tuning mute on the top = note )</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>I guess that some pianos will sound really more musical with this style of = stretch. I've listen to Renée Fleming warming  accompanied on a = Boston grand tuned as this this afternoon, and the voice blended particularly = well with the piano.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>I was feeling that the singer was flowing along with the piano, much more than = if she were to have a more standard tuning. It gives an orchestral dimension to = the piano sound witch is very musical my impression. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>I am not sure how to have a temperament highly stretched, while avoiding = really too fast thirds, which are not always acceptable.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>In Cordier Temperament, the equal beating between minor third and major = third in the fifths ( as A-C C-E ) gives the fifths, the minor and major chord a = very strong quality, but without too much movement.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>I strongly suggest you try this method if you did not yet, you will be = surprised at what you will find. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>Too, you can try to tune the top note with the sustain pedal engaged, while = sounding the 12th and the double together. The sound and correct point is so = strong and perceptible that sometime I've been asking if it was not damageable = to  my ears, but in fact I think that it is just easy to do that (no pain, no stress).</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002>Comparison with the VT 100 proposed stretch = is like "expanded style" with a 3 cents (on this last piano Boston) added at the = temperament octave . The fun is that you need to have an audible beat to = be near the correct stretch, then the beat disappears, and you tune musically. = The other fun is that the precision of your tuning is as good as with the best = EDT, but without risk  of "ear closing" .</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>Please let me know what you find .</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002>Regards</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>Isaac OLEG</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002>Tuner - technician - concert service</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN = class=290484320-15012002> <P><FONT size=2>PianoTech<BR>19 rue Jules Ferry<BR>94400 VITRY sur SEINE<BR>FRANCE<BR>tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98<BR>fax : 033 01 47 18 06 = 90<BR>cell: 06 60 42 58 77 </FONT></P></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=290484320-15012002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT = face=Tahoma size=2>-----Message d'origine-----<BR><B>De :</B> = owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]<B>De la part de</B> Billbrpt@AOL.COM<BR><B>Envoyé :</B> vendredi 14 décembre 2001 = 04:29<BR><B>À :</B> pianotech@ptg.org<BR><B>Objet :</B> = Re: Cordier temperament<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT = size=2>In a message dated 12/13/01 9:02:12 PM Central Standard Time, mcpiano@globetrotter.net (Marcel Carey) writes: <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE="CITE">Double octave were about <BR>2bps wich I found = disturbing. But, this is what he wanted. When checking the <BR>tuning, it was too = much stretch, but when he played the piano, it sounded <BR>fine. So = again, we should be careful to keep the goal in mind. We must tune <BR>for = music, not for tuning test</BLOCKQUOTE>.</FONT><FONT color=#000000 = face=Arial lang=0 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#000000 = face=Arial lang=0 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">This is a very fine comment and = observation, Marcel.  The "Tempered Octaves" that I often speak of can = approach your description here.  Even if you usually or only tune ET, look up = my article called "Tuning Tempered Octaves" through the link in my new = website at the bottom of its index page. <BR><BR>I developed this method when I = was still tuning ET.  If you use it to tune ET, your octaves will be = perfect on the PTG Exam except in the 7th octave where they will score as too sharp = but not so much that it would mean a failing score.  It is essentially = the same idea the Steve Fairchild RPT uses although I did not understand this = until many years after I had made the idea part of my practice. <BR><BR>If = you make my technique part of your skills, you can tune octaves as accurately = and consistently as you would using an ETD.  It is only when I use = this idea with my EBVT that *some* of my double octaves beat slightly.  In = ET, they are so slightly stretched that they will be neither disturbing to you = as you tune or musically. <BR><BR>When Jim Coleman and Virgil Smith heard my = octaves back in 1993, they were impressed, interested and wanted to know how I = did them.  It is really so very easy that I jokingly call them = "Mindless Octaves" because the technique will give you such accuracy and = consistency so easily that you cannot help but be accurate regardless of how you may = be feeling at the time. <BR><BR>There are two other instances where I = remember Jim Coleman saying something very positive about this idea publicly:  "...he tunes *beautiful* octaves..." (to a group of technicians) = and as I was talking to Dr. Sanderson, Jim was there also and had Dr. = Sanderson take special note of what I had to say.  Essentially, it is an *Equal = Beating* compromise between the Double Octave and the Octave and = Fifth.</FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Bill Bremmer RPT <BR>Madison, Wisconsin <BR><A href="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b = r e m m e r . c o m =-</A> </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>