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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ain't gonna lurk no mo, no =
mo!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm gonna tell a story. It's a =
bit sad and
embarrassing for me but it ends okay.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A young man and his sister found an art =
deco piano
on the internet a year or so ago for 10000 dollars. It had a =
severely
cracked plate in the middle section. A half moon crack thru the =
tuning pin
area and the two struts at the ends cracked about half way thru. =
This
piano was a Strohmenger made in London about 1930. It was =
4'1".
Piano was a half round</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>shape (As Victor Borge would say "That =
big fat
opera singer didn't lean on the side of the piano.") It was 2-tone, dark =
mahogany and light maple, and the rear of the lid opened like a duck's =
rear
end. The legs swooped down to the floor to meet at the lyre. =
The
mover said "I'll never forget where you live-It's where I saw this butt =
ugly
piano". Actually, it grew on me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The piano was in Austin,Tex and I was =
shown a Xerox
of the crack. I told them that if anyone in the area could fix it =
I could
and I doubted anyone else would even try. I won't give you a price =
tho
till I see it. Well, they went ahead and bought it for 8000 and I =
did take
on the job.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After repairing the plate (no I didn't =
weld it, I
re-enforced it patched it and used 1/4 thick, 2 inch wide steel bar to =
support
the sagging section and used lots of screws and steel filled
epoxy.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now the embarrassing part. I =
rescaled the
piano and was stringing fat, dumb and happy from the top down in the =
bass and
was 2/3 finished when I realized I was twisting the strings in the wrong =
direction. Whoops! So I corrected them and continued. You'll =
see why
I have to admit this later.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The reason this applies to scaling is =
that this
piano had 35 notes below the bass break. There were no agraffes at =
all. Notes 36 and 37 were bichord wound strings and the next four =
notes
were bichord plain wire.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I had a real problem when I chipped =
it. Lots
of chipping but </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the center section finally settled
down.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now when I tried to actually tune it, =
note 35
sounded terrible. It just couldn't be tuned. I tried tuning the
fundamental of both strings to the accutuner and the two strings didn't =
even
sound the same. Then I found that the left strings =
partials 2-5
were 21, 3, 4, and18 cents flat. The right were 21, 18, 21 =
and 38
cents flat. I sure didn't know what to do. I called =
everybody I
could think of. Nobody could give me a good explanation. So =
I
ordered a pair of the smallest universal strings I could get, put them =
on and lo
and behold, It sounded good. So I ordered four more strings and =
used them
on notes 36 and 37 ( the first notes above the bass break) They =
weren't
nearly as bad as note 35 but </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I replaced the anyway. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now after all this work, I thought that =
piano
sounder better that a lot of much larger poorly scaled grands. Certainly =
the
best sounding 4'1" I've seen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The customer is delighted and so am =
I.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here are some questions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Did my twisting the strings in the =
wrong direction
damage them and what exactly did it do to them? And why just the =
top
three?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If they were just bad strings, what was =
wrong with
them?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm suspicious that the string winder =
didn't use
enough tension, but would that cause the partials to go =
flat?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I checked the strings diameter and =
length etc and
couldn't find anything wrong, no loose windings, nothing. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What happened? =
Anybody?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Carl Meyer</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>---- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sec@overspianos.com.au =
href="mailto:sec@overspianos.com.au">Overs
Pianos</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B></B> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B></B> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B></B> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 20, 2001 6:11 =
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Scaling Problem =
reduex</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Kevin, Joe, Ron and other lurkers,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Saw your post earlier today Kevin when you wrote:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1> I've =
noticed
something on some newer pianos lately . . . I've been encountering =
more and
more pianos of late that seem to have a real scaling problem in the =
low
tenor section. . . but where I really see it is in the new Yamaha =
model GA1,
and . . GH1. What is happening is that the designers of these pianos =
have
put too many notes in the tenor that belong in the bass. As you play =
chromatically down the scale, these notes start sounding like
"pong-pong-pong" and then you hit the bass, and they sound normal
again.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Your absolutely correct. Why oh why are so many manufacturers so =
'thick'
that they can't see that they're crippling their smaller pianos by =
insisting
on breaking at B27. Little pianos like the GA1 should break at E32/F33 =
at the
lowest, but they just don't get it.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial =
size=-1> I
know that this is caused by continuing to drop the tension on the =
strings in
order to get the fundamental down to the required frequency, but you =
reach a
certain point, and you get a tone that seems hollow and is very =
difficult to
fit in with the rest of the tuning.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As soon as the long bridge turns and heads for the bass side of =
the case
the scale has had it. If the break was higher up the tension wouldn't =
fall
away so dramatically.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial =
size=-1>
I've had some partial success with carefully doping the hammers, and =
voicing
the bass down, plus leveling strings, straightening termination =
points etc.,
but not to any totally satisfactory result.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>No it's not possible to get it satisfactory. But why should =
technicians
in the field have to go to such measures just to get the things to =
sound
somewhat like a piano. And it's only half a fix anyhow, because the =
problem is
with the scale.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ron N's suggestion was sound, and I have no doubt that installing =
bichord
covers for a few notes will make the piano 'less bad' as he says. But =
I'm more
in favour of installing a tenor bridge and completely rescaling the =
thing. But
you wouldn't bother with a little entry level piano like the =
GA1.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Kevin continued later in the day;</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1>Thanks to =
all who have
responded. . . . . . . . I have nothing but the greatest respect for =
Yamaha,
and their products, (I own two) but I can't understand why that =
company,
which is the most advanced in the world, could produce a product =
with such
obvious poor planning.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>While Yamaha certainly know how to manufacture pianos to a =
blueprint,
they get the blueprint wrong. They don't seem to have a clue about =
scale
design with their smaller grands (ie, anything under and before the =
C7F), and
there's not a Japanese manufacturer with a decent upright scale. =
Furthermore,
both the Yamaha CF and Kawai's EX are basically scaling clones of the =
Steinway
D (all three have got a speaking length at F21 of 183 cm - what a =
magic number
this must be!). Why? Why do this? What's so wrong with doing a bit of =
original
thinking. We've all basically wasted a whole century by trying to =
follow in
the foot steps of one company. Why do this? We homo sapiens are =
supposed to be
intelligent, but sometimes we seem to be no more creative than =
sheep.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1>The =
Japanese are such
industrious and intelligent people, that you would think that surely =
they
would stop and go back to the drawing-board before shipping
one.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>There are intelligent folks and idiots amongst all nationalities. =
We just
need to believe in ourselves now and then. We can move forward if we =
let
ourselves do it. It's no use going back to the 'drawing board' only to =
produce
the same old trash. We need to rethink the parameters, and it needs to =
happen
in our generation. Actually, I believe this list just might make it =
possible.
Isn't that an exciting prospect.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial =
size=-1> If
I tuned nothing but Yamaha grands, I could spend out my days in =
relative
happiness.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I couldn't. They're fine while ever the wether stays stable. But =
as soon
as the wether changes the tuning stability is 'out the window', and =
its scale
and down bearing and sound board related.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1>But I just =
don't get
it with these really small ones that are starting to come out on the =
market.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Many designers seem to be such 'traditionaloids', they can't =
bring
themselves to move the break away from A#26/B27. That's where it's =
always been
historically - so we can't mess with tradition can we? It's a similar
situation with 7' grands which break at E20/F21. Just because the =
concert
piano breaks at F21, why should the 7' scale be ruined by breaking it =
at F21.
A 145 cm F21 speaking length on the 7' is going to be somewhat short =
on break
% compared to the 183 cm F21 on the concert piano (and there's a =
'paddock
full' of these ordinary 7' pianos out there, which could be so much =
better at
no extra cost). Let's damn tradition, if there's a better way of =
designing
than the traditional way.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT face=Arial =
size=-1> But
I'm not working to please myself. I just don't want a customer to =
buy one,
and then think that it's a tuning issue, like I should be able to =
just fix
it in three to five minutes. I'm a "technician" not a
"magician".</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Exactly, but you'd need to be a magician to get many of those =
stupid
little designs to hold tune for longer than takes for you to get your =
kit back
in the car - if indeed you were able to get it into tune at all. I had =
an
experience some years ago when I got a call-back to a newish Japanese =
131 cm
top of the range vertical I'd tuned the week before. "It's gone out of =
tune",
she bleated over the phone. When I checked the piano, it was the =
fallen-over
tension area just before the cross which had gone quite sharp (it had =
rained
during the week since the tuning hadn't it!). When I tried to explain =
that the
problem was with the scale design of the piano, the client didn't =
believe me.
She accused me of incompetence and of trying to pass the blame onto =
the piano
- which couldn't be the problem, after all, it was a new piano! I was =
less
than impressed with the prospect of wearing the blame for something =
which I
knew to be due to poor scale design.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>There, I feel a whole lot better now. I've been quietly bubbling =
over for
a while on this issue. Thanks Kevin.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We must widen our design perspective. It is now possible to =
design and
build pianos which are better than anything which has gone before. =
Let's do
it! Even the cheaper pianos could still have better design.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Over and out.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ron O</DIV>
<DIV>-- <BR>______________________________<BR><BR>Website:
=
http://www.overspianos.com.au<BR>Email: &nbs=
p;
=
mailto:ron@overspianos.com.au<BR>______________________________</DIV></BL=
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