<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type = content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I run into this quite often. I use the = car analogy to describe how pianos wear out. I also point out how pianos differ from = antique cars that are "all original". The reasons a = restored 1962 Corvette with all original parts and matching serial numbers is worth = anything is because there are not any cars made like them anymore and mostly = because there are many car clubs around where folks get together and show off = their cars, etc., etc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A 1902 or a 1962 or a 2002 Steinway or = Bechstein or whatever uprights or grands don't look a whole lot different from one = another. There are no piano clubs/magazines, etc. that attracts antique piano = collectors, etc. An antique piano has no intrinsic value. The only way an "antique" = piano has any value is usually if Harry Truman or Glenn Gould owned it, or = maybe if it is very unusual in some unique way.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then give them an appraisal of = the wholesale value of their piano: less than zero. Give them a retail value of their = piano: zero to $500 depending on cosmetics (does it have all the keytops) and = whether all the keys work.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That usually does it. If they still = don't believe you, then perhaps they just need to hear the same thing from another = qualified technician.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now you need to focus on these original = parts - parts replacement. The "all original" restored 1962 Corvette has all its = original metal and fiberglass parts (not even that actually - it could = have a new alternator, etc., etc. - just the original "type") but all the = SOFT/ORGANIC parts have been replaced with new. The seat covers and radiator hoses = and brake lines are all new - they were not made by Chevrolet. The piano is the = same way. The "hard parts", i.e. the parts that don't wear out or deteriorate on = their own can stay - the case, plate, frame, keybed, etc. But the SOFT/ORGANIC = parts that wear need to be replaced if you want it to look/perform like new - = hammers, action parts, strings (not soft or organic, but you can replace with = original type), soundboard and whatever.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Only for a museum restoration is there = any reason to try and preserve everything in its original state. But keep in mind = that is done for historical preservation only - not to make something work for = everyday use.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If that doesn't work. Walk away - its hopeless!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>BTW, IMHO those old Knabes are among = the finest, if not the finest, uprights ever built - premium remanufacturing = stock! Ya might even want to tell her you know someone in the = business.......   ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=sarah@graphic-fusion.com = href="mailto:sarah@graphic-fusion.com">Sarah Fox</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 15, 2004 = 6:43 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How do we tell = customers that the work done on their pianosstinks?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Tom et al.,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This whole motorized hammer filing = discussion had me pondering a question that this thread touches on.  Advice = would be appreciated...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A friend's daughter, a young but = accomplished musician (composer/violinist), has a beautiful 1905 Knabe upright with = considerable wear and tear.  The biggest problems with the piano = are the hammer-like objects (HLOs), which come in all variety of = random shapes and sizes, thanks to the skilled work of some unknown tooner from long = ago, and the dampers, which are original and don't damp all that = great.  The piano has a LOT of sentimental value, and despite its wear, it's quite = a nice instrument.  I'd say it's an obvious candidate for new hammers = and damper felt at the very least.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here's the problem, though:  The = young lady who owns the piano believes that the old/original/butchered hammers = and the old/original damper felt has antique value.  In other words, this = piano is "all original," and as such, it's very valuable.  Replacing = any of the old parts with new parts would lessen its value.  Get the idea?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How do you convince such a person = that her piano needs a good infusion of 21st Century wool?  The fact that the = old-styled Wurzen felt is now available should help, but I just don't think that = will carry the argument.  Have any of you run across this = attitude?  If so, what do you do?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=tcole@cruzio.com href="mailto:tcole@cruzio.com">Thomas = Cole</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 14, = 2004 12:45 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How do we tell = customers that the work done on their pianosstinks?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>I had to tell a lady that her piano was untunable and = that it needed restringing. She had just had it restrung in the previous = year. She said that was what the last technician told her and, after a while, reluctantly, asked me to do the job again. <BR><BR>So, in answer to = your question, tell the truth (but leave out the "crappy" and "useless" adjectives) and be the second technician to show up to give the bad = news. :-)<BR><BR>Tom Cole<BR><BR>gordon stelter wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE = cite=mid20041114133110.46412.qmail@web41405.mail.yahoo.com type="cite"><PRE wrap="">The BEST part in a situation like this = is telling the customer that the former "technician" did useless and crappy work. USUALLY the customer gets mad at YOU instead of them! ( And doesn't believe you, i.e. "That nice old man, xxxxx, worked on MY piano!" ( Smiling, with beaming eyes. ) Does anyone here have suggestions on how to handle telling a customer that the work they just paid for is absolutely worthless garbage ? Thump P.S. I played a small private reception for a celebrity you'd all recognize last night, in a big mansion.......... on a Wurlitzer console. The owner came up to me, beaming, "How do you like it ?" I rejected the first 10 answers that came to mind, bit my lip and politely said "It's OK ". ( I'm not good at lying ) "When was it tuned ?" " Sometime in the last year!" he beamed again. Sheesh! --- Farrell <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E = href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com"><mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>= </A> wrote: </PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Of course! But it's ok = because the originals are those really nice ones with the knuckle integrated into the shank! I'm sure you all have seen this kind of crap workmanship before, but last night I thought I would turn my attention to the backchecks and putting a radius on the hammer tails. The guy also put new backchecks on. Every one at a unique height. Many pushing up adjacent hammers upon key stroke. The hammer tails hit the backcheck at about a 45 degree angle (tails don't check, they clunk!). Then I try to gang sand the tails for a radius. Tails are angled every which way. In, out, rotated. If you took all the loose parts, thew them in a box and shook it up and then looked inside, you would have something that looks pretty close to this action. I am exaggerating only slightly. Arrrrggggg! It would have been less work to try and make the original parts function, rather than trying to make this hodge-podge of parts function. :-( Ain't there a law????? Terry Farrell ----- Original Message ----- From: Avery Todd To: Pianotech Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Front Rail Punching Interference Just wondering, but did "they" also install those new hammers on old shanks/knuckles? :-) Avery At 03:56 PM 11/13/04, you wrote: I think I found part of the problem already. The tooner before me "rebuilt the piano" - you know, the full monty - new strings, hammers, damper felts (yes indeed, hanging way out past the damper heads) and keytops - none of which were installed straight/aligned, etc. I imagine this thing had ivory keytops originally. The new keytops are thick plastic (~2mm), and yup, you guessed it, he didn't plane the keytops down to compensate for the thicker keytops - so now I have keys that are one or two millimeters thicker than original..... Oh well, back to the drawing board ........ er, a, regulating table...... Terry Farrell ----- Original Message ----- From: antares To: Pianotech Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Front Rail Punching Interference Terry, First of all, you need to know the exact key height of your key board. This is the key to your regulation. For instance.... the key height for Steinway model S-B (measured from the key bed to the underside of the key top covering) is 63 mm. For Yamaha's this 64 mm. It is the only way to get your basis straight. After that, we're talking. Andr� Oorebeek On 13-nov-04, at 20:47, Farrell wrote: <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Help!<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>I'm trying to regulate a Baldwin "Monarch" microgrand action. I haven't looked up the piano's age (can't find my Pierce Atlas), but it is from the first half of the 20th Century. I've run into this before. I level keys (1/2" sharp height), regulate blow, let-off, etc., and then go to set aftertouch. When I have the proper aftertouch on the sharps, the adjacent naturals hit the sharp front rail punching before they hit their own front rail punching when depressing the natural.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>That's bad.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>What gives? Have I done something stupid? Have I simply overlooked something?<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Another thing - I have to reduce blow to 1-3/4 inches to provide sufficient key travel (about 3/8 inches - way less than spec) to allow let-off and a tad of aftertouch. I replaced the back rail felt with original thickness (which is the thinnest sold by the supply houses), I am using the thinnest front rail punchings available, and I even have key height a little bit higher than they were (and above spec - more than 2-1/2 inches - I'm quite sure I'm still OK with the fallboard).<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Again, what gives? Action clearly appears all original.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>This is all a lot easier when you rebuild the action, go through the Stanwood and geometry stuff, and have it all correct from the get-go! Because, as in this case, it can't be me, it's gotta be the action! Right? ;-)<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Thanks for anything anyone has to offer.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Terry Farrell<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> friendly greetings from Andr� Oorebeek "where Music is, no harm can be" </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated = href="http://www.yahoo.com">www.yahoo.com</A> _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext = href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives">http://www.ptg.org= /mailman/listinfo/pianotech</A> </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>