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<DIV><FONT size=2>Isaac:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>When you say didn't respond to voicing in the =
shoulders, do
you mean to open up the tone, or to make more power by needling from =
down
below?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>When you say no tension, did you find the hammers =
dead
sounding? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It's not been my experience
generally. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The importance of the staple is somewhat =
controversial.
There are those who argue that it adds tension to the lower part of the =
hammer
and those who say it doesn't make any difference. The Renner blue =
is, of
course, without a staple. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>David Love</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=oleg-i@wanadoo.fr href="mailto:oleg-i@wanadoo.fr">Isaac =
OLEG</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> September 21, 2002 3:33 =
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: hammer felt =
(Renner
Blues)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2>David</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff size=2>The
one I had did not really respond to voicing in the shoulders, as being =
too
mushy there. May be with a few deep stitches from the start it could =
gain some
more active resilience. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff size=2>As
it was the tension was almost none, but very nice felt
indeed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2>Renner use this felt since a few years, and I believe =
actually on all
their hammers. The problem they have is that the molding they buy (I
understand that they don't do that themselves) are more stiffer than =
before,
and they don't like to make hammers with that sharp wooden molding as =
in some
Steinway, Bechstein, etc.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff size=2>I
suspect that the Wurzen Felt, being softer, is more prone to be =
damaged if
forced on a sharp molding. Beside, of course they would hate to break =
the
moldings in the gluing process, and that is more the case with thin =
moldings
of course.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2>Nowadays, All actual hammers, for Steinways, and other makes, =
are
generally thicker wood, and this felt that techs are often wondering =
how to
treat.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff size=2>But
of course "nothing never changed " will be told you if you
ask.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff size=2>I
had to needle a C1 hammer (on a Yamaha G2) , and indeed 30 stitches =
was the
maximum in the medium (for first voicing), a bit too much near the =
break. In
the treble I begin to voice at 9:30, but finally was obliged to go =
back from
the low regions, as the strength was not enough.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff size=2>I
will see that again after a bit of playing, I guess the natural sound =
of this
felt is enough as it is, not really crisp, mellow and round but =
forcefully
enough.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff size=2>It
will be clearer in time, but not at all as the tone of the old Yamaha =
hammers,
so metallic, I for sure like it better (and C1 C2 hammer assembly for =
Yamahas
are cheap (around $430).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2>Regards and good Sunday</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=637281122-21092002><FONT face=Arial =
color=#0000ff
size=2>Isaac OLEG</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT =
face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Message d'origine-----<BR><B>De :</B>
pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<B>De la =
part
de</B> David Love<BR><B>Envoyé :</B> samedi 21 septembre 2002 =
18:08<BR><B>À :</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Objet :</B> Re: =
hammer
felt<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>According to a fairly recent conversation I had =
with Lloyd
Meyer, Renner blues are Wurzen felt. The Renner blue is =
somewhat
softer than its European counterpart. Where Andre is needing =
30
stitches in the tenor, a Renner blue will need considerably
less.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>David Love</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Erwinspiano@aol.com
href="mailto:Erwinspiano@aol.com">Erwinspiano@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> September 21, 2002 =
8:06
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: hammer =
felt</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face="Times New Roman" size=2 FAMILY="SERIF">In a message =
dated 9/21/2002
1:32:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <A
href="mailto:antares@euronet.nl">antares@euronet.nl</A>
writes:<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Subj:<B>hammer felt </B><BR>Date:9/21/2002 1:32:12 =
AM
Pacific Daylight Time<BR>From:<A
=
href="mailto:antares@euronet.nl">antares@euronet.nl</A><BR>Reply-to:<A =
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><BR>To:<A =
=
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><BR><I>Sent from
the Internet
</I><BR><BR>
Antares</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2 =
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial =
color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" =
color=#000000
size=3
=
FAMILY="SERIF"> &n=
bsp;
I believe the only hammer like this in America cost about 800 =
dollars and
it is sold by the Steinway factory. I heard a couple of sample =
hammers in
a piano and I confess I was impressed. But two hammers is not =
really a
fair assesment for me however my friend has used a couple of =
sets on
larger steinways and he loved the sounds. But 800 bucks is to rich =
for my
blood. What do these hammers cost in Europe? If it's less than =
half of 800
I'll try a set.<BR>Regards<BR> Dale =
Erwin</FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial =
color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 =
size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE"><BR>And then I say (speaking from a long time =
experience)
:<BR><BR>Try the Renner hammers with Wurzen felt.<BR>I don't =
know about
the 'Renner blues' made for the US market (maybe they =
are<BR>made with
lower tension because of your (American) way with hammer =
dopes)<BR>but
at least here in Europe the Renner hammers (with Wurzen) are the =
very<BR>best hammers available and you find them on =
Bösendorfers,
Bechsteins,<BR>Steinways and other well known piano
makers.<BR>Yamaha uses Wurzen on their CFIIIS and these days =
even Samick
in Seoul buys<BR>Wurzen felt.<BR><BR>The Renner Wurzen hammers =
we use
have the following characteristics :<BR><BR>Nice, even tone from =
the
beginning.<BR>Middle section needs some voicing and opening up =
(usually
around 30<BR>strokes).<BR>Lower bass hammers, usually the first =
octave,
need battery voicing (driving<BR>up the powers from the base of =
the
hammers).<BR>Higher treble hammers (from c''' to c'''') need =
battery
voicing.<BR>The highest treble hammers, usually the last 5 or 6 =
hammers,
need some dope<BR>to give them a little more 'ping'.<BR><BR>Just =
yesterday, I voiced an older baby Grotrian Steinweg grand with
these<BR>Renner hammers and it took me about 1 hour and 15 =
minutes to
needle them,<BR>file them, clean them up and apply the
dope.<BR><BR>Result :<BR>A nice, warm and even sounding Grotrian =
Steinweg baby with a 'ping' in the<BR>high treble.<BR><BR>By =
looking
closely at the fibers of the Wurzen felt, and especially on
the<BR>sides, we clearly see that this felt is not just a dense, =
stone
hard,<BR>lifeless piece of felt. On the contrary, it almost =
seems like
it was woven<BR>like a beautiful and very expensive Kashmir =
shawl and
after hearing the<BR>result, we can understand why, in the =
earlier days,
the great piano makers<BR>in Europe used this felt.<BR>Now that =
the
Eastern part of Germany has been added to its former halve,
the<BR>factory has opened again, continuing to make what they =
had to
temporarily<BR>stop a long time ago.<BR><BR>friendly
greetings<BR>from<BR><BR>Antares,<BR><BR>Amsterdam,
Holland<BR><BR>"where music is, no harm can be"<BR><BR>visit my =
website
at :
=
http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT =
lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" =
color=#000000
size=2
FAMILY="SERIF"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT=
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