<HTML>In a message dated 4/7/01 11:28:35 AM Central Daylight Time, tunenbww@clear.lakes.com (Paul) writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm an aural tuner, so setting this temperament was a bit of a struggle. It did work out. All of the checks proofed correct. I had several people try the piano. Their reactions is another story. </BLOCKQUOTE> I'm glad that you are an aural tuner because I have the ideal temperament for you to try.  It will be in the same general area as Jim Coleman's #11, yet different enough to be quite significantly different in the overall effects it produces when actual music is played.  The difference is in the effects that Equal Beating (EB) produces. While not attempting to say anything negative about Jim Coleman's idea, it was formed simply by meting out certain proportions for various intervals, giving up purity at the top of the Cycle of 5ths in order to avoid harshness at the bottom.  Mine does essentially the same thing but because of the EB effect, you can play early music with it and have it mimic the sound of a much earlier temperament which would have uncalled for harshness in the remote keys when trying to play music from the 19th or 20th Centuries. What happens is a canceling out effect in the Rapidly Beating Intervals (RBI), e.g., 3rds, 6ths, 10ths & 17ths that make them sound much purer than they really are.  This is not an imaginary effect.  It is the same effect found in such acoustical tricks as Noise Cancellation Systems and Beat Eliminators.  The gist of it is that when there are two sets of beats occurring at the same time, they phase each other out so that they are not perceived by the ear. This gives you an advantage in that you can have a true, Cycle of 5ths based temperament that can and does work well with virtually any kind of music, the way only ET is believed to be able to do.  There are many myths about ET and one of them is that it is "Universally" practiced.  In fact, most aural tuners cannot really produce a true ET.  There is always some error and that error does produce an effect or "color", as it is called in the music. The Equal Beating Victorian Temperament (EBVT) that I designed stays well within the bounds of deviation (or "error") in ET that most aural tuners produce.  Therefore, it produces no sound so extreme (either too pure or too harsh) that the *contemporary* ear will reject it.  I designed and implemented this temperament in 1992 and have used it ever since as my own personal replacement for ET.  I have, in fact, tuned no pianos in ET since 1989.  I tune all kinds of pianos, in homes, schools, churches, concert halls, restaurants, hotels, etc.  I have a very loyal and devoted following that really likes the way I make my pianos sound. Ed Foote's latest essay found in the liner notes of his new CD is quite impressive.  But I find a couple of areas of temperament research lacking in his study that I usually find, even among the most knowledgeable alternative temperament practitioners.  There seems to be only one "Meantone", the most extreme form, the one that makes the modern piano sound like an antique one with virtually none of the resonance we expect to hear.  There are whole classes of temperaments that remain ignored and unexplored, the Modified Meantones (not the same kind of temperament as a "Meantone") and the Quasi Equal Temperaments.  The EBVT is, in fact a Modified Meantone Temperament although it also just barely satisfies the Rules for Well-Tempered Tuning as written by Andreas Werkmeister in the 17th Century. Ed mentioned in a recent post that a Gershwin piece in Db would have sounded "better" in ET.  I've seen him say the same about Chopin and Debussy.  I respectfully disagree.  There is a reason that these composers chose a remote key, the challenge is to find the exact combinations that make it sound vibrant and singing but not harsh.  ET is merely the default choice for those who do not have the answer.  It neutralizes the piano to the point where it would make no difference at all which key is chosen to play in.  I hardly think anyone would choose ET if they really knew how much better music could sound with a more advanced approach to tuning. Below are the basic instructions for the EBVT.  It cannot be tuned the way most people are trying to attempt alternative temperaments, by imposing a set of "Correction Figures" to a smooth curve calculation for ET using an Electronic Tuning Device (ETD).  If you tune the octaves the way I have indicated in a very brief description, they will naturally be of different sizes as you ascend and descend the scale.  No smooth curve calculation can produce this.  They are known as "Tempered Octaves". If you or anyone is interested in reading a background article I have written to support my ideas called "Key Color", please request it privately.  It is too long to post on Pianotech.  Also, please inquire if you need further explanation of how to tune the octaves.  It is really quite easy and simple but not the way you have probably been taught. Good luck with this and let me and/or the List know of your own reaction and those of your customers. Regards, Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin                      EBVT Aural Tuning Instructions:  Introduction Below are the line by line instructions for tuning the EBVT.  You will begin by estimating just 2 intervals, a 5th which you will temper just slightly more than you would for ET and a 3rd which you will temper about half as much as you would for ET.  Thereafter, all you will need to do is either tune an interval perfectly pure or make it beat exactly the same as another.  In short, the temperament sequence itself provides you with the exact information you need. The instructions include the aural way of proving your pure 4ths and 5ths.   When doing an initial first rough pass, it is not necessary to prove these intervals so exactly.  Also, the instructions have several places where they tell you to "temporarily tune...etc".  These are for people who are just beginning to learn the temperament sequence. With experience and during the fine tuning of the temperament, you may skip the "temporary" part the same way you learn to skip elementary steps in Algebra.  You simply learn how to make 2 intervals beat exactly the same as each other by placing the note to be tuned at point where it creates 2 equally beating intervals.  This is also called "Meantone tuning". The following is the way the 3rds played chromatically will sound from F3-F4.  Just imagine all values inverted and you have the most commonly made error in tuning today which is known as "Reverse Well". F3-A3: slow F#3-A#3: fast G3-B3: slow Ab3-C4: quite fast A3-C#4: moderate, about the same as ET Bb-D4: moderate B3-D#4: very fast C4-E4: slow, half the speed of ET C#4-F4: very fast                     Equal Beating Victorian Temperament      (Equal Beating Victorianized Modified Meantone Temperament)                      Instructions for Aural Tuning                         (With Tempered Octaves) 1.  Tune A4 to A-440 pitch source. 2.  Tune A3 to A4, stretching the octave to a a 6:3 type. 3.  Temper E4 from A3, a narrow 5th, a little more than an Equal    Temperament (ET) 5th but still slightly less than 1 beat per second.    This is an estimate and may be checked or adjusted later, if    necessary. 4.  Listen to the 4th, E4-A4.  It should beat faster than the 5th, A3-E4    but should not be faster than 2 beats per second. 5.  Temper C4 from E4, a wide Major 3rd to beat approximately 6 beats per    second. (Half the speed of the same interval in ET.) 6.  Temper G3 from E4, a wide Major 6th so that it beats exactly the same    as the C4-E4 3rd. (Approximately 6 beats per second). 7.  Temper B3 from G3, a wide Major 3rd so that it beats exactly the same    as both the C4-E4 3rd and the G3-E4 6th. (Approximately 6 beats per    second). 8.  Temporarily tune D4 a pure 4th from A4 then notice the strong beat    in the 5th G3-D4 and sharpen D4 until the beat is exactly the same    in both the G3-D4 5th and the A3-D4 4th. (Faster than the same    interval in ET.) 9.  Tune F3 a pure 5th from C4.  To check this interval, use G#2 as the    test note and prove that the Ab2-F3 6th beats exactly the same as    the Ab2-C4 10th. 10.  Tune F4 a pure 4th from C4.  To check this interval, use G#3 as the    test note and prove that the 3rd Ab3-C4 beats exactly the same as the    Ab3-F4 6th. 11. Verify the F3-F4 octave.  Using the test for a pure 5th which chooses    the lowest coincident partial of F3 & C4 and the test for the pure 4th    C4-F4 will yield a properly stretched octave, usually a compromise    between a 4:2 & 6:3 type. 12. Check the speed of the 3rd, F3-A3.  It should beat exactly the same    or very similarly to the 3rds G3-B3 and C4-E4.  If it is too slow,    adjust the note, E4 slightly flatter and begin the sequence again.    If too fast, adjust E4 slightly sharper and restart the sequence. 13. Tune Bb3 a pure 5th from F4.  Use the test note C#3 to prove that the    Db3-Bb3 6th beats exactly the same as the Db3-F4 10th. 14. Listen to the resultant 3rd, Bb3-D4.  Temper C#4 so that the A3-C#4    3rd beats exactly the same as the Bb3-D4 3rd. 15. Tune F#3 a pure 5th from C#4.  Use the test note A2 to prove that the    A2-F#3 6th beats exactly the same as the A2-C#4 10th. 16. Tune G#3 a pure 4th from C#4.  Use the test note E3 to prove that the    E3-G#3 3rd beats exactly the same as the E3-C#4 6th.  The Ab3-C4 3rd    will beat exactly the same as the F#3-A#3 3rd. 17. Temporarily tune D#4 a pure 5th from G#3 then notice the slight beat    between D#4 & A#3 and flatten D#4 until the G#3-D#4 5th beats exactly    the same as the A#3-D#4 4th. It will be a very slight beat, less than    the same interval in ET. The B3-D#4 3rd will beat very rapidly, at    least as fast as the F#3-A#3 & Ab3-C4 3rds below and similar to but    perhaps not quite as fast as the C#4-F4 3rd above. 18. When expanding the octaves do so in a manner which will cause the    2nd inversion major triads of C, G, D, A, E, & B to have the 3rd & 6th    beat exactly the same.  The octave should be stretched enough so that    there is a very slight beat in the single octave (approximately 1/2    beat per second) and that the tempered 5th will beat slower than the    4th. When both the 4th and the 5th were pure in the temperament, the    octave will naturally be stretched a little less than an octave    whose 4th and 5th are tempered. 19. When expanding the outer octaves, try to reconcile the double octave    and the octave and a 5th (12th) so that the double octave and the 12th    beat exactly the same. (A very slight beat, almost inaudible). This    will naturally result in octaves which vary slightly in size up and    down the keyboard. These will quite effectively be "tempered    octaves". Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin April, 2000 </HTML>