<HTML>List, As a long time--incompletely trained for many of those years--aural tune= r, I have to kick in for the ETD as a learning device. I have been able to get stable unisons for a long time, and my hammer te= chnique has been second nature for nigh on 25 years.  What I got from T= unelab Pocket, in combination with more serious study--becoming self-employe= d vs. doing strictly store tunings necessitated this--was verification that = I was on the right track.  Ron Koval's idea of using it to "look over y= our shoulder" is a good one, IMHO.  In using that method, I have become= a far better aural tuner than I ever was without one. I certainly agree with what most have said, the way the piano sounds is = the important thing, not how it looks on the screen.  Example:  I = did some inharmonicity measurements on an upright Kawai awhile back, and som= ehow the tuning curve got screwed up.  I was doing a pitch raise on the= piano, but I could tell from the start that it was not right, even at A0: &= nbsp;that was an aural correction of the machine, not hard to do when it's 7= 5 cents sharp!  I corrected the tuning curve in Tunelab, did my pitch r= aise, then tuned the piano by ear.  If I had not been able to recognize= this, I'm certain the piano would have sounded miserable, and possibly brok= en strings. A tuning device can be a great teacher for a novice, or for someone who = already has some degree of skill.  In conjuction with proper instructio= n, they work well. IMHO, pitch-raising is the one thing I find practically indespensable wi= th an ETD.  I've done it without, but it's a more lengthy process for m= e.   Dave Stahl In a message dated 5/30/04 4:40:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Richard.Bre= kne@grieg.uib.no writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-= LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Chris While we are all free to use whateve style of teaching we each find best= suits our own needs, I think it has been shown very clearly indeed that ETD's can and are used very succesfully in teaching all aspects of tunin= g. Cheers RicB Chris Gregg wrote: > Unfortunately I have to disagree with the use of an ETD for learnin= g > how to tune aurally.  As a person who has helped many students= with > aural tuning skills, I insist that at least the time they spend wit= h > me will not include an ETD.  The reason is that all the checks= that > you need for a tuning are available within the piano, and using an = ETD > to check the the work can be demoralizing.  Find a good aural = tuner > that can affirm what you are doing.  Your aural tuning skills = will > improve by leaps and bounds. > > > Chris Gregg.  RPT > _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>