<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Terry, Who was this addressed to? Warren Farrell wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style> It is hard to believe you end up with a piano at targeted pitch. Your description appears to defy laws of physics. Consider the top two of four sections on the grand. If the whole piano was 100 cents flat, starting at A0, by the time you get to the upper treble those notes will be 120 or more cents flat. Raise them to targeted pitch, and they will fall a good 33%, or 40 cents by the time you finish your first pass. Treble now 40 cents flat. Start second pass targeting standard pitch, no overpull. Treble will be at least another 10 cents flat by the time you get there, so it will be 50 cents flat. Raise treble to standard pitch, and they will fall a good 33%, or 17 cents or so. The treble is now 17 cents flat after the second pitch-raise pass. Now you start your tuning pass with the treble 17 cents flat? Tenor will likely be in the 10-cent flat area. If, on the tuning and final pass you do not add any overpull, you will still end up at least 3 cents flat in tenor and somewhere between 5 and 10 cents flat in treble. I have yet to see a piano that varies significantly from the above description. Am I missing something? "......am I concerned about the quality or stability of the tuning?" Hmmmmm. Why do you not use any overpull to get the piano to pitch? Terry Farrell ----- Original Message ----- <blockquote dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <a href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net" title="ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David Ilvedson</a></div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title="pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</a></div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:23 AM</div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: Oops?</div>  I am in the minority, but I don't raise above pitch at all...If -100 cents, I take a my FAC readings with those notes at correct pitch then bring each string up to a correct pitch as per SAT from A0 to C8...if the tenor isn't as flat as the rest of the piano it doesn't get raised any higher than any other part of the piano.  So when I go through it a second time it is about 10 to 15 cents flat (I don't really care where...the piano decides that but it isn't anywhere near 30 cents flat!) and I go through it again to pitch.  The bass is now reasonably stable and a quick 3rd time through the tenor/treble and I'm done with the initial tuning...see ya in 3 to 6 months...am I concerned about the quality or stability of the tuning?  I don't think so...I didn't let it go for 15 years...it's not my problem...I don't use a temp strip, just mutes and tuning unisons as I go... David I. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/5/01 at 7:35 PM Billbrpt@AOL.COM wrote: <blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">In a message dated 11/5/01 6:16:31 PM Central Standard Time, davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David Love) writes:   <blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE">Also, so that those who are not familiar with your style of tuning are not mislead, the standard pitch raise function should get the treble sharp enough if you measure/reset frequently on the way up and if you are using standard stretching.  I recall that you mentioned that in your tempered octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you get to C8.  Those tuning with normal stretch are more likely to reach only +40.  For your system that would require additional stretch going up.  For others, they would end up considerably sharp of the target and have to do a lowering before a fine tuning.</blockquote> Yes, but bear in mind that most of the time I use a more conventional amount of stretch.  The triple octave/double octave and fifth comparison is only for when I wan the absolute maximum and justifiable amount. Once I get into the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off.  But let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange.  That's 100%.  Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch.  The high treble may easily be 150% flat.  Now add 30 cents for the high treble for the usual amount of stretch.  We're up to 180% now, which theoretically would take +60 cents overpull.  Yipes! Maybe on a new or newly strung piano but even then, I'd prefer to work my way up.  The danger of breaking a string or splitting the bridge on the poor old Betsy Ross is simply too great.  Add to that the kind of test blows needed to settle such a change and you'd be bustin' those elbows or breaking the keys themselves at the balance rail. It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to see substantiated:  a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on".  I'm not from Missouri but *show me* anyway. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin</blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> -- Warren Fisher RPT fish@Communique.net 1422 Briarwood Dr. Slidell, LA 70458-3102   </body> </html>