<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’ve found that a smooth pull = motion works best for me on Steinway grands, although on some the jerk motion = will work. While using a smooth motion, applying some downward pressure on the end = of the tuning lever may also help reduce the flagpoling effect. It’s = something you have to get used to, but once you figure it out, you’ll have = it forever.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p= > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John = Formsma<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font = size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </span></font></div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span = style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Alan Barnard<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, December = 19, 2005 7:04 PM<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> James H Frazee; = <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: The Art = & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'>To use the slow pull on the S&S--especially if the pin is = jumpy--it seems to work well to first lower pitch a few cents then gently, slowly, steadily (while whacking) raise it to slightly, I say again, = <em><i><font face="Times New Roman">slightly</font></i></em> over pitch. Then just = let it settle (while whacking) without pushing the pin back, i.e., without = using the hammer to "set" the pin.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'>If your first pull is not high enough or, especially, if you = pulled too high and end up sharp, then you need to push down a few cents and start = over. You get pretty good at hitting it on the mark, after a = bit.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Have fun.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Alan Barnard<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font = size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size:12.0pt'>Salem</span></font></st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MO</st1:State></st1:place><br> <br> -----Original Message----- <br> From: James H Frazee <br> <JIMFRAZEE@MSN.COM>Sent: Dec 19, 2005 4:12 PM <br> To: tune4u@earthlink.net <br> Subject: Re: The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins = <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><ZZZHTML = style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans = Serif"><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1" = http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZZZMETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" = name="GENERATOR"></ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY id=MailContainerBody = style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; = COLOR: #000000; BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; PADDING-TOP: 15px; FONT-STYLE: = normal; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; = BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; TEXT-DECORATION: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: = none" name="Compose message area" CanvasTabStop="true" = acc_role="text" topMargin="0" leftMargin="0"><ZZZ!--[GTE 5] = IE><ZZZ![ENDIF]-->Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>Thanks for = your thoughtful and complete reply!  Actually, I normally use Liz = Baker's WJB method although I started out using Randy Potter's/Franz Mohr's method simply = because I had taken the Potter course until I gave up on it.  I haven't = tried the slow pull yet, though, and that may be just the ticket for this = piano!  It's an M that suffers from what I call "aggressive neglect"; = hadn't been tuned for eighteen years, was over a full whole step flat to start = and was so dusty inside that the dust had actually solidified.  That said, = it took two tunings to get it playable, except for one string of E3 which would = slip its gears if I fussed too much.  Finally got it to hold and told = the owner to keep his fingers crossed for his party last weekend and call me if it = went out again.  So far, no call but that could also be because they = won't touch or tune the piano for another 18 years.   I will try to the = slow pull, though, because it would probably be safer on this one.  = Thanks again!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'= > <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>----- Original Message ----- = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'= >From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'> <a href="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net" title="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net">Alan Barnard</a> = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'= >To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</a> = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'= >Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'> Monday, December 19, 2005 4:05 = PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'= >Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'> The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning = pins<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p> </o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif";color:black'>On = many Shteinveigh Und Zunz you have to kinda sneak up to the pitch. = </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif";color:black'>Gee, = that was clear ...</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif";color:black'>Let = me try again. The idea of setting the pin by jerking it slightly over pitch and = back pressuring to settle it on pitch doesn't always work on the = S&S. I have often found it helpful to use the slow steady pull rather than "notch" tuning on these babies. That way you can estimate the slightly amount of overpull needed and let it settle to pitch without = putting any back pressure on the hammer. This is the ONLY way I've been able to = tune the tenor and low treble of one particular M that I = tune.</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans = Serif";color:black'>Having said that, here's a quote from the Randy Potter Course: "Steinway pianos = do not have plate bushings and some technicians have difficulty getting the = pins in tune because their method of tuning ends up wiggling the tuning pin = around (flagpoling), especially if the pins are tight. I find that I can = get the piano into tune quicker, and it tends to hold better, when I use notch = tuning for these pianos. And this is the method I was taught when I studied = with Franz Mohr ... (at Steinway)"</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif";color:black'>See? = Now that is different from MY experience. Is either idea "right" or "wrong"? No, I don't think so.</span></font><font size=2 = color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif";color:black'>Liz = Baker, who kept the St. Louis Symphony's three Steinway D's humming sweetly for 21 = years, calls her technique "wiggle, jerk, and bang." She puts a = vibration energy into the hammer (the wiggle) then makes very small notches (the = jerk) while hitting a sharp blow on the key (the bang). That's different than = the slow pull I described above but anyone who can tune for Rachmaninoff = concertos obviously knows how to set a stable pin, so her technique is certainly = worth a try, too. </span></font><font size=2 color=black = face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans = Serif";color:black'>Having said all that, I'd like to recommend the book "Different Strokes" = by Ken Burton, RPT, available thru Randy Potter, <a = href="http://www.pianotuning,com" title="http://www.pianotuning,com/">www.pianotuning,com</a>. Not only = are many concepts, theories, and techniques described but he begins the book by = saying (page 3) "Every piano tunes differently." I sincerely believe = that is true! </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans = Serif";color:black'>Steinways, perhaps because they lack collars, DO seem to have a characteristic feel = BUT it is by no means specific or unique, and there is certainly no single approach that works on all of them, or any other type or brand of = pianos.</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif";color:black'>I = have come to believe that ONLY tuning many pianos, with some experimentation and = active THINKING about what the pins feel like, what different hammers feel = like, etc., gives one the real skill necessary to confidently approach any piano and = know that you can create a good and STABLE tuning. In short, I don't think = you develop a "technique" with the hammer that is unique to you, = unique to a type of hammer, unique to any brand of pianos, or unique to any = piano, for that matter. </span></font><font size=2 color=black = face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif";color:black'>What = we must develop (it only comes with much experience) is the ability to = FINESSE each pin into place--regardless of pin feel, string friction, = etc.--based on the tactile and aural feedback THAT PARTICULAR pin is giving you as = you tune it.</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="MS Sans = Serif"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans = Serif";color:black'>Though there are technical skills to learn and science and theory, I strongly believe = that ultimately the ability to tune quickly, well, and with stability, is a = rather highly refined ART. And it just flat takes time and experience to = develop any art form.</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>Alan = Barnard<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font = size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana; color:black'>Salem</span></font></st1:City><font size=2 = color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>, <st1:State w:st="on">Missouri</st1:State></span></font></st1:place><font = size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'> <o:p></o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>----- Original Message ----- = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style='font-color:black'> <p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 = color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black; font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a href="mailto:jimfrazee@msn.com" = title="mailto:jimfrazee@msn.com">James H Frazee</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'= >To: </span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'><a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" = title="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</a><o:p></o:p></span></font>= </p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'= >Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'> 12/19/2005 12:39:26 PM <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'= >Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'> Setting tuning pins<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p> </o= :p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black = face=Verdana><ZZZ!--[GTE 5] IE><ZZZ![ENDIF]--><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>What = method<img border=0 width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:003501c604e9$4fe7a4f0$A77E819E@hewlett5k1589j" = style='float:none; margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-top:0px;positio= n: static' alt="Sleeping half-moon emoticon" title="Sleeping half-moon = emoticon" tabIndex=-1 MSNNonUserImageOrEmoticon=true> do you use for = setting tuning pins, particularly one that "jumps" on an S&S = grand?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </blockquote> </blockquote> </div> </div> </ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML> </body> <PRE> Salem, Missouri </PRE> </html>