<HTML>In a message dated 12/16/01 5:46:48 AM Central Standard Time, JARickson@AOL.COM writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I still have yet to hear a real historical tuning (unless I formed one inadvertenly when I was first learning ET).  Nevertheless, I would really love to, especially for pieces like Chopin's Barcarolle which is written in F sharp major.  Its has a pretty soothing, sweet  tone, as a "Boat Song" should.  It would be extremely interesting to hear it played with a WT tuning.  </BLOCKQUOTE>  I'm glad to read of your interest.  Unfortunately, the kind of truly *historical* temperament which would be appropriate for this music will be difficult to determine if it is correct by ear alone.  One of the Broadwood temperaments in Owen Jorgensen's big red book, Tuning would work best but the aural instructions cannot be followed reliably.  They are best tuned electronically. Any earlier temperament which can be tuned accurately by ear will be too strong for this music.  You'll probably have intervals which will sound "sour" or dissonant to your ears. I searched for years to find a Historical Temperament (HT) which would suit the modern piano and represent *any* kind of music, if possible, better than the totally neutral Equal Temperament (ET).  It was while I was working with a group of temperaments known as the Equal Beating (EB) Temperaments that I found the answer. These temperaments can be tuned accurately by ear because there is no guessing about how an interval should sound.  You either tune one pure (beatless) or make it beat exactly the same as another.  Either of these can be done as accurately by ear as the results expected by an Electronic Tuning Device (ETD).  In the case of a poorly scaled piano, aural tuning results may be superior to those of an ETD.  Also, errors can easily be made when programming an ETD which will yield incorrect results.  In such an instance, the idea of using an HT may give unnecessarily you or the customer a bad impression of what the music should sound like. The Equal Beating Victorian Temperament (EBVT) that I designed nearly 10 years ago suits music from any era, from Baroque to contemporary.  The special canceling out effect of Equal Beating in the simple keys (those with no or few sharps or flats) makes music played in them sound as if it is coming from a piano tuned in a much earlier and more restrictive temperament.  Therefore, it works very well for 17th and 18th Century music. One of the difficulties with HT's is that having the kind of pure or nearly pure 3rds which are appropriate for music of the 17th and 18th Centuries will automatically mean that 3rds in the remote keys (those with 4, 5 or 6 sharps or flats) will be far too harsh for playing 19th Century or later music.  For this reason, ET is always seen as the only workable compromise. The trouble is that ET is difficult to tune accurately by ear.  Even a very small error makes the temperament *unequal*.  The cumulative effect of several compounded errors will create another kind of temperament by default.  It has been my observation that many tuners inadvertently create a temperament through compounded errors which essentially turns out to be a backwards or inverted version of a Well Tempered Tuning (WT).  Usually the errors are small and the unintended effect is not that seriously bad but I have observed some tuners work which is consistently very unequal and unfortunately in a reverse pattern from the typical HT.  This kind of error has been named, "Reverse Well" (RW). From years of observation of what kind of intervals the *contemporary ear* will or will not accept, I found that either too pure or too wide 3rds sound unacceptable.  In ET, a 3rd is 14 cents wide of being pure.  A 3rd of half that width, 7 cents sounds gentle and "sweet" to the ear.  The ear may also like a 5 or 6 cent 3rd but anything less will sound "dead" or "flat".  On the other hand, any 3rd beyond 19 cents risks sounding too "sour" or harsh to the modern world.  Most of the classic HT's have 21 cent or higher 3rds and will cause many people to reject them outright. My EBVT contains 3rds which range from 7 to 18 cents, easily within the range that most people find quite pleasing.  Moreover, most people as well never recognize consciously that the piano is tuned differently from the usual.  I consider this an advantage, not a disadvantage because the pianist and/or listener *accepts* the tuning as a normal sound. The *normalcy* results because I have remained within the bounds of error that most people make when trying to tune ET. The music does take on an enhanced quality because of the alignment with the Cycle of 5ths.  When combined with the unique concept of *Tempered Octaves* that I also apply, the piano sounds "cleaner" and more in tune with itself than with virtually any other tuning idea I have ever witnessed.  In EBVT with Tempered Octaves, the piano takes on beautiful, orderly and very pleasing resonances.  These resonances become the plasing and orderly *vibrato* for the piano. Other instrumentalists or vocalists find this vibrato to be superbly pleasing and appropriately musical and thus find the piano *easier* to play or sing in tune with than a piano in ET.  The very small amount that the EBVT deviates from ET makes it truly compatible with all other instruments, including fixed pitch instruments which are tuned in ET. In summation, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying to learn to tune the piano the way I do.  I have worked very hard to make the instructions easily readable and understandable.  You can find the latest edition in the first link in my new website.  Simply click on the link below and you'll find them and other interesting material to read.  Visit my website often, there will be new information as it becomes available. Please let me and the List know of your experience with the EBVT or any other tuning idea you may try.  If you are pleased with the EBVT, please direct anyone you think may be interested to my website. Regards, Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin <A HREF="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . c o m =-</A> </HTML>