<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>   David Love wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Now I didn't say I told any of my customers that, but it can give you a clue as to what's going on.</blockquote> But why not ?? Seems like a pretty good analogy. I liked this you write below here very much as well. Grin... especially the bit about the short game. God dont I know it. How many strokes you can make up if you can end up on in three and two putt after any drive good or bad. You advise begginers to tune a temperament with an ETD and then move on to tune the rest by ear if they want. This is really good advice and goes to emphasis what I think most of us understand as essential for acceptable tunings... good and solid unisons and octaves. Its probably a great way to start learning tuning and tuning theory period. Course you know much of how I feel about the ETD and ear tuning subject. ETD's are a great tool... but I dont see it as a good thing that they be used to replace more then a small part of the ears roll in tuning.   <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Just to elaborate a bit on this subject (FWIW).  I see many tuners starting out focussing on temperament.  It's not surprising.  It's the more interesting part of tuning and the most difficult.  Like golf, people tend to practice most with their drivers.  It's the most difficult, but the part of the game used the least.  They would be much better off practicing the short game where most shots are taken.  The temperament comprises 12 strings out of 200+.  As we've heard from recent reports on perceptions of different temperaments, many people are hard pressed to tell the difference between equal temperament and even a fairly strong well temperament.  Much less between various degrees of equal temperament.  There is a lot of leeway with temperaments.   A mediocre temperament will go unnoticed, most likely, if the octaves and unisons are clean and stable.  The contrary is not true.  The most perfect temperament is lost with octaves and unisons that are loose and unstable.  In order of priority, those who are developing their skills would do well to practice unisons, unisons, unisons, then octaves and lastly, temperament.  Always practice with stability in mind.  If tuning a temperament takes too long, then use an ETD at first, even if you want to tune the rest aurally.  The ETD will also give you an objective way to test your tuning stability.  All ETD's will give a very solid temperament.  Their differences are more apparent as you move out.  Don't go out and tune for customers until you can tune solid unisons and octaves that are stable.  A customer is more likely to be lost for a tuning that is not solid than anything else and they will never be regained.  Temperament skills can be allowed to develop over time without the same negative consequences. David Love davidlovepianos@earthlink.net   <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives"></a> </blockquote> Good stuff ! RicB   -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. UiB, Bergen, Norway <A HREF="mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no">mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no</A> <A HREF="http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html">http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html</A> <A HREF="http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html">http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html</A>  </html>