<html> Barb, Joe,     I've been convinced by more experienced technicians that a certain amount of pre-voicing is critical on consoles and spinets. Brushing the strike point changes the stack of partials  produced in octaves 6&7. So.... it affects the tuning.     Also, I've been shown the importance of balancing between melodic and harmonic tests for the high treble. The ETDs tend to set the higher notes at a point that sounds best if tested harmonically. The melodic tests that mimic so much of what usually happens up there musically will result in a slightly higher treble. So, for -ilex, I'd have to guess that as Dave said, it's mainly a difference in tuning styles. And to guess at the specifics of the differences, one of them will probably be the use of melodic or harmonic tests.     A simple test of your "balance" is to play a double or triple octave (up to the high treble) interval harmonically. Both notes at the same time. Tune the upper note. Now, strike the lower note and hold it for no more than a second or so. Wait a couple of seconds, and play the upper note. This is an "exaggerated" melodic test. Now, how does the upper note sound?    I try to know what the average repertoire is for my customers, although it's increasingly wide-and-varied. Makes it harder to tailor the tuning. But.... if we were to look at music styles, it would be hard to nail down an average use of chording or melody-making in the high treble. Jazzers seem a little more likely to be using melody in the last octave, as opposed to the larger, more harmonic intervals that a lot of classical music uses up there. But.... over-generalization could work against us. Again, what I've learned is the importance of balancing the two perspectives. It is, after all, a very simple science of matching up attack phases with sustain phases.     Which one is "in tune"? Laters, Guy At 09:56 PM 10/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Joe,   Yeah, yeah, yeah--I was taught those things, too.  This may come as a shock to some folks, but there *are* times when it's OK to break the rules (a person just has to know when that is).  Trust me, I know when *I* can pre-voice a piano. I'm talking about getting it in the ballpark here using whatever method I know will do the trick.  No amount of regulating, hammer/string matching or tuning (remember, I said the tuning was in the ballpark) is going to rid a piano of that granite sound.  Besides, I have found when I walk in and perform a miracle, people are more willing to have me to do the "big job."   Barbara Richmond, RPT <dl> <dd>----- Original Message ----- <dd>From: <a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">Joe Garrett</a> <dd>To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</a> <dd>Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 9:28 PM <dd>Subject: Voicing <dd>Barbara said: "OK, I confess, if the tuning <dd>is in the ball park and the voicing is like granite, I'll do a "general <dd>voicing" before I tune........ <dd>Barbara, <dd>I was taught to make sure the piano was in good regulation and tuning BEFORE doing any voicing! I've found, that many "voicing" problems are resolved by making sure everything is up to snuff, before reaching for my voicing kit.<G> Also, I've seen some classes that have proved out that with good regulation, hammer/string matching and JUST tuning, the piano starts to sound better!<G> In the same vein, trying to regulate before the action is in good mechanical condition, is like "herding cats", IMO. Something to think about. <dd>Best Regards, <dd>Joe Garrett, R.P.T. <dd>Captain, Tool Police <dd>Squares R I </dl></blockquote></html>