<html><body> <DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV>My comcast was down last night, so I did't have a chance to read any posts from the list.  It seems I'm a pretty populr guy on here ever since the topic of partials came up.  However, I hope my popularity doesn't reflect in everyone's mind that I am lazy and refuse to learn the scientific aspects of tuning.  I have an interest in them by all means, but what harm is there in practice tuning and training my ear to hear what sounds right or wrong.  Having the knowledge in my mind won't train my ear necessarily to hear what it's suposed to hear, but using the ear to hear is key here.  The science of it is good, I agree because I can play a high partial and test to see if I can in deed hear it.  I shouldn't however receive the idea or feeling that I'm so far behind in my learning as a tech because I don't have all of the science down and that I need someone to fix my tuning.  Rather, someone to guide and give insight I think would hold more value because it doesn't make one feel confident when they hae a feeling that they have to be fixed in some way.  I admit this comes from past battles dealing with the eyesight issues which I'm learning day by day to overcome, but the word fix hits a negitive partial in my inate human partial series.  We must remember that no one has arrived, we're on different places on the road.  I'm willing to accept science, but shouldn't be caused to feel whether intentional or unintentional that I'm not doing well in my persuit because I don't have the partial series grasped.  I know for a fact that I'll become an excellant technician due to my keen hearing, and eventually add to my excellance when I hammer down the scientific aspcts of this incredible art.</DIV> <DIV>Marshall</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- From: ed440@mindspring.com > David- > > I've listened very carefully to Marshall's posts, and to other's answers to him. > And although you may not believe it, I've thought very carefully about my > responses to him. > I know there are a small number of "intuitive" tuners out there, some of whom do > excellent work. > I know of one who passed the tuning exam who could not say anything beyond "I > just make it sound right, like it's supposed to." > If you can teach affinity, whole tone hearing, please do. I'm sure I could > learn from you. > But what terms will you use to tell us what you do? If you say "Make the octave > pure," how will you tell us what that means in a way that we can replicate and > test? > Would it interrupt our affinity to learn the names of the notes on the keyboard? > It's hard to think of another field in which the basic knowledge (the overtone > series) is so simple. > I don't know of a single tuning teacher who does not refer to this again and > again. There is no other way for us to communicate about what we do. It is > easy. Once you learn it, you can talk with anyone else in the world about what > you are doing. And it is tragic if a person who wants to be a tuner does not > learn it. > > Sincerely, > Ed Sutton > > > Marshall- > > If someone taught you to check A4 with F3, they don't know how to tune a piano. > Do you know the overtone series? (Also called partial series) > Do you know what coincident partials are? > These are the first things you need to know. If you know them, you can figure > out almost every problem of tuning for yourself. If you don't know them, you > won't really understand the answers, even if someone gives you the right answer. > 1) You need to be able to play an overtone (partial) series on any note, up to > the 8th partial. > 2) You need to be able to find the "least coincident partials" between any two > notes, and especially between thirds, fourths and fifths. > You need to stop everything and learn these two skills. It may take a few days > to learn them. Eveything will begin to make sense when you have these skills. > > Sincerely, > Ed Sutton > > > With all due respect, Ed, making these kinds of statements is ill-considered; > very judgemental and dogmatic. There are many, many ways to get to be a > proficient piano tuner. Perhaps Marshall has a natural affinity for listening > to the whole tone, as artists hear the piano. Maybe following that affinity, > and trusting it, will take him to the place he wants to go. Who are you to tell > him he’s wrong, or that his mentor is wrong? Is this the way we welcome new > people into our little world? Marshall obviously has a big passion for this, and > is trying to find his way. We need to be supportive. I’ve never done a tuning > with an ETD, and I’ve never consciously “partial-matched” during any of > the 25,000 tunings I’ve done. I’ve got a pretty good practice, and I can > tune as well as almost anyone in the world. > > Different strokes for different folks.......please. > > David Andersen > Malibu, CA > > > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>